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> Origins Of The Universe.
Harry Costas
Posted: Sep 22 2006, 08:41 AM


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Hello All


Is there an origin.

Or

Is that, just man's way of thinking that there is an origin.

We have many theories as to the origin and there are varies theories telling us there is no Origin and that the universe is infinite.

With all the modern scientists and astronomers and cosmologists and the many telsecopes on earth and outer sapce, you would think that a common thought as to the origin of the universe would develope.

Long time ago I was brain washed into the Big Bang and there was no way people could talk me out of it. They presented the Big Bang in such a way that I believed every part, because it was so logical and supported widely and became the standard model.

I'm not here trying to talk you out of the Big Bang, just advising people to look at modern observations and papers that expalin the universe.

In my opinion, the universe is ongoing and recycles, that is the parts within the universe and not the universe itself.

Some parts are expanding and others are contracting, forming clusters of stars, clusters of galaxies, clusters of clusters forming super cluster of galaxies.

What about the so called expansion of the universe. They say it expands in time and space but! not the actual expansion in actual distance.

What are your thoughts?



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Harry Costas
Posted: Sep 29 2006, 10:12 PM


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Hello All


I came across this link as to the origin of our solar system

http://www.omatumr.com/abstracts2005/The_Suns_Origin.pdf
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Pan
Posted: Sep 29 2006, 10:37 PM


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There is great evidence for the big bang, but even the big bang theory doesn't actually explain the universe's origins.

So we poke and peek, guess and test until something is consistent with everything else we know. One issue here, however, is that these questions exists at the limits of our technological and political-economic means to test theories. So likely, you aren't going to get an answer anytime soon, if at all in your lifetime.

Personally, i'm thinking the universe is a finite bit on an infinite background. That's out of my arse, so i don't plan on backing that pablum up. tongue.gif
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fivedoughnut
  Posted: Sep 30 2006, 07:59 AM


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QUOTE (Pan @ Sep 29 2006, 10:37 PM)

Personally, i'm thinking the universe is a finite bit on an infinite background. That's out of my arse, so i don't plan on backing that pablum up. tongue.gif

Out of your arse and childrens mouths......sounds about right to me biggrin.gif
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Harry Costas
Posted: Oct 2 2006, 01:15 AM


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Hello All


We know the position of Uranus.

But! it does not stop us from discussing the issues.

Because I'm right and everybody else is wrong.
When everybody else is right than I'm wrong.


So! we have an infinite universe, with its internal parts, doing what they know best.
Forming stars
Forming galaxies
colliding together.
Forming clusters of galaxies
In a never ending story of reycling.
The deeper we see into space the more we find and sometimes we discover new objects that test our abilty and knowledge.

Man always wants to know where and when did it all start.

There was never a start and there will never be and end.

Its always been here in one form or another matter if that matters.


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Knot of this world
Posted: Oct 2 2006, 10:34 AM


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QUOTE (Harry Costas @ Oct 2 2006, 01:15 AM)
Hello All


We know the position of Uranus.

But! it does not stop us from discussing the issues.

Because I'm right and everybody else is wrong.
When everybody else is right than I'm wrong.


So! we have an infinite universe, with its internal parts, doing what they know best.
Forming stars
Forming galaxies
colliding together.
Forming clusters of galaxies
In a never ending story of reycling.
The deeper we see into space the more we find and sometimes we discover new objects that test our abilty and knowledge.

Man always wants to know where and when did it all start.

There was never a start and there will never be and end.

Its always been here in one form or another matter if that matters.

Hi Harry,

I'll return the courtesy from the infinity thread.

I think you are quite right to ask whether it even matters. We should not be here arguing with each other, but simply enjoying the view!

You know my outlook. Infinite Space, with pockets of 'finite space', of which we are a tiny part, and we call 'universe(s)'. This is scietifically backed up by the WSM theory, but the 'science' doesn't particularly interest me. It is just further physical proof of what we all already know. I already find such proof, in a stroll through the forest.


This is actually great news, or it would be, if it were not for the fact that Humans are also so very close to destroying, unconsciously, the great beauty that is the ability of this Universe to use its evolved consciousness to contemplate its own 'mysteries'; the ability of this Universe to use its evolved consciousness to share its love with other parts of itself; the ability of this Universe to use its evolved consciousness to look back through its spacial self, to a time many billions of years previously when it created such beauty that we can still observe, and appreciate, today.

This is incredible, when you seriously think about it! - And that is what we should be doing, instead of arguing about trivia.

The only good reason to discuss it at all, is to stop ourselves unconsciously destroying such beauty, or even to be able to show ourselves that it IS beauty, at all. When you know that you are part of this Infinite Spacial Beauty, it becomes worth all the effort it took to reach this 'knowing', and worth all the effort to bring this consciousness to others, so that they stop destroying it, and start enjoying it, and encourage their children to consciously enjoy, and not unconsciously destroy...


So, there it is. Reason, purpose and motivation.


k.


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Harry Costas
Posted: Oct 3 2006, 07:53 AM


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Hello All

Hello Mr Knot

Smile,,,,,,,,,,,,I think we should blow the earth up.
Than we shall know its value.

Somebody asked me what theories are discussed as per the origin of the universe.

M- theory
String theory
Big Bang
Steady state
Plasma
Static
Wave theory
Creation
Recycle Theory
and my theory under construction.
am!!! did I forget any





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Harry Costas
Posted: Oct 3 2006, 08:37 AM


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QUOTE
Many believe that the Hubble Space Telescope's recent distance measurement to this galaxy accurately calibrates the expansion rate of the universe. Others believe this distance measurement is misleading. The universe's expansion rate is usually given as a quantity called "Hubble's constant", a factor dividing well-measured recession velocity of a galaxy to give actual distance. Scientific debate over the value of Hubble's constant has been ongoing since it was first measured by Edwin Hubble in 1929



This question of,,,,,,,,,,,,,Is the universe expanding? is so critical to the theory of the Big Bang.

Even so, the Big Bang says that, time/space is expanding but! not the actual distance.
Work that one out.
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Guest_Sam
Posted: Oct 8 2006, 11:22 PM


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It is difficult if not impossible to conceive of an endlessness to space or whatever name one wishes to use. Infinity, infinite- are words which have meaning, however they are also words which we cannot really relate to since all that is known to us has a beginning an an end. Our own lives are but a fraction of the time in history. Our own lives are also a very very small fraction of time,(permission requested to use the term 'time', that science has revealed concerning the existance of humans on the planet earth. Isn't it true that if we pinch our thumb and index finger together tightly, that space still doesn't give us a reasonable concept of our 'time' in existance. More to come. Responses most welcome. Speculation also most welcome.
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US
Posted: Oct 9 2006, 12:23 AM


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you know you're onto something when uncle sam intervenes
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Harry Costas
Posted: Oct 9 2006, 12:14 PM


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Hello US

Man,,,,,,,,,,,what is your point.
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Harry Costas
Posted: Oct 9 2006, 12:56 PM


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Hello All

I have been asked to focus on the Origins of the universe.

Lets look at the Steady state. What I believe in and what is truth are two different things. So with that in mind keep your mind open.

RUFUS'S GALAXY WEB PAGE
The Steady State Galaxy Theory
An Alternative To
The Big Bang Theory

http://www.galaxytheory.com/#INT

QUOTE
Basic Operation of Galaxies
At the center of each galaxy is a neutroid which acts to constantly recycle all the matter and energy in the galaxy. This neutroid is similar to a neutron star but is very much larger and has reached a size where the pressure and temperature at its surface are great enough to generate a nuclear fusion process. In the areas of the neutroid's magnetic poles, the products of fusion are trapped by the magnetic field and are pushed out along the magnetic field by the pressure of the nuclear fusion process going on below. This results in a column of material composed of hydrogen, helium and other light elements being ejected at each of the neutroid's two magnetic poles. This material moves out from the neutroid at essentially constant velocity until it reaches a point where the magnetic field is no longer strong enough to control it. Once free of the magnetic field the material then continues under it's own momentum to travel to the outer edge of the galaxy before starting to fall back toward the neutroid.


QUOTE
Shape of Galaxies
The Concept of the Steady State Galaxy as put forth above can account for the shape of all galaxies we see in the universe. As explained above, the spiral is the basic shape of galaxies. The exact shape will be determined by the size of the neutroid, the tilt of its magnetic axis with respect to its axis of rotation and its rate of rotation


QUOTE
Red Shift

In reality the universe we live in is not expanding and is in a steady state where its matter and energy are being constantly recycled. The so called Red Shift is caused by other factors. We know from a branch of Physics known as Quantum Mechanics that the Energy of a photon of light is defined by the equation E=hv where E is the energy of the photon, h is plancks' constant and v is its frequency. If for any reason energy is lost from a photon, its frequency will decrease in accordance with this equation.


QUOTE
Modern Cosmologists claim that the expansion of the universe under the Big Bang Theory is due to the expansion of "space" and it is the expanding "space" which is causing the stretching of photons (i.e. red shift). Again it sounds like the use of the word "space" here is just another name for aether. Cosmologists seem to believe that the material they call "space" has some rather magical properties. They claim that as it expands, it increases the distance between galaxies, that it stretches photons, but it does not cause the size of anything within galaxies to expand. If space were expanding. everything would expand including our measuring sticks, thus making such expansion impossible to detect


QUOTE
Cosmologists argue that the redshift cannot be caused by loss of energy of the light wave (tired light theory) to stray hydrogen atoms which permeate interstellar space through the Compton effect, because, if they did, the images from distant galaxies would be blurred. This blurring effect is not seen. However, if light waves were losing energy to the medium through which they travel, the distant
images would not be blurred


QUOTE
MicroWave Background Radiation

A second argument which has been made to support the Big Bang Theory is the microwave background radiation. COBE has shown that the spectrum of the Microwave Background Radiation (MBR) is that of an ideal Black Body Radiator having a temperature of about 2.8 degrees K. It has also shown that this radiation has a Redshift/Blueshift to it, indicating that the earth is moving about 600Km/s relative to the shell of matter that emitted the radiation. Since this speed is too great for the earth's movement within the milky-way galaxy, it indicates that the source is outside our galaxy and that our galaxy is moving in relation to that source.

As indicated in the previous section dealing with redshift, the starlight photons radiated by galaxies gradually lose energy to the aether which then reradiates this energy as the Microwave Background Radiation. The wavelength of the photons of the MBR, at the peak of the spectrum radiation curve, will be about 1mm. Since the rate of loss of energy by photons will be inversely proportional to the wavelength of those photons, and since the MBR photons have a wavelength of more than a thousand times that of visible light, the percentage loss of energy by the MBR photons will be at a rate of over one thousand times less than that of a visible photon. (If it takes a visible photon 15 billion years to lose 3/4's of it's energy, then it would take a MBR photon 15,000 billion years to lose 3/4's of it's energy). It follows that since MBR photons have a range of travel of more than one thousand times that of visible light photons, they are also a thousand times more likely to encounter a galaxy and be absorbed by the matter of that galaxy then a visible light photon would.


QUOTE
Entropy
A third argument that has been put forward in support of the Big Bang Theory is entropy, in that, it is argued that the universe must eventually run down into a state of thermal equilibrium. Energy exists in various forms such as atomic binding energies, thermal energy, potential and kinetic energy, etc., all of which are associated with matter, or it exists in photons which have been radiated by matter and will eventually be reabsorbed by matter. Under the Steady State Galaxy Theory as put forth above, since all matter in a Galaxy is recycled through the Neutroid on a regular basis, all energy contained by that matter is also recycled at the same time and, thus, the universe does not run down into a state of thermal equilibrium.



QUOTE
Hydrogen-Helium
A fourth arguement which has been used to support the Big Bang theory is that it would account for the abundance of helium we find in the universe. The amount of helium present (24%) cannot be accounted for by star production and according to Gamow it was generated by the Big Bang.

Under the Steady State Galaxy theory, the nuclear fusion process which is expelling the material from the neutroid would generate large amounts of helium as well as other light elements and is the source of the excess helium found in the universe



QUOTE
Quasars
The latest Hubble pictures of quasars show that they are associated with galaxies and in most cases there is evidence that these galaxies have recently collided with other galaxies.

In normal galaxies, the neutroid at their center is obscured by a halo of material trapped in the neutroid's magnetic field. In the case of quasars, this halo of material has been temporarily destroyed by the collision with another galaxy and we are seeing the bare neutroid which is, as expected, extremely energetic



QUOTE
The Steady State Galaxy Theory as put forth above can provide the basis for the operation of the Universe as it is seen to exist. It can not only account for the shape of all galaxies we see in the universe which is something no other theory as proposed so far can accomplish but it can also explain the existence of quasars.



Is it right or is wrong.
The information is out there, use the observation, test the theory and study it.
In the past people were caught in a wave of facts and figures and entrusted others to tell them the truth.

Recently two scientists were givem Nobel prize for fininding evidence that proves the Big Bang. The question is do we except this and if we do, do we entrust these people in leading us maybe up the garden parth.

How can we even question the evidence when the world has accepted the evidence.
http://www.nasa.gov/vision/universe/starsg...ize_mather.html


You want the truth, look for it, and never, never, ever take a persons word for it.
Many Nobel prize winners have proven to be wrong in later years.


In the next post I will give a point of view on The Big Bang

This post has been edited by Harry Costas on Oct 9 2006, 01:00 PM
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kaneda
Posted: Nov 12 2006, 09:04 AM


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At the centre of each galaxy is a super-massive black hole. In a spiral galaxy it looks as though the rest of the galaxy built around it. Rather than the idiot and unlikely dark matter which just happens to coincide with light matter though it is said to outnumber it 400 to 1, it is more likely that we have the theory of gravity wrong on a galactic or bigger scale.


I have come back to the steady state theory as the big bang has had to rely on ever more unlikely fudges to hold it together.


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kaneda
Posted: Nov 12 2006, 09:11 AM


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Guest Sam. Space does not have to be infinite. If there is literally nothing outside the Universe, then the Universe is it. Space is very finite.


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kaneda
Posted: Nov 12 2006, 09:24 AM


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Harry Costas. According to the BB idea, there was first faster than light 10^20c)inflation which suddenly slowed down to below light speed inflation, which then several billion years ago suddenly started to expand faster. The edge of what we can see now is expanding at almost light speed (ie: the further something is away, the faster it expands), but that is from over 13 billion years ago so has it reached an ultimate speed or another ten billion light years further away, is material expanmding at multiples of light speed?

Another point. Space is actually said to be stretching. This means from about a point source, magnitudes smaller than an electron, space has stretched to tens of billions of light years. This without any effect on the nuclear forces, the speed of light, the force of gravity, etc.


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