Defining what causes ..., Wave function collapse

When the wave collapses you are left with only a particle. Sometimes there is no wave; for a short duration. This duration needs to be calculated. How long the particle will remain wave less is important.

In the Two Slit Experiment with electrons adding light collapses the wave. Therefore there will be no wave interference at the detection screen. There simply is no wave to interfere.

The wave function collapses when an interaction occurs that has sufficient strength and asymmetry.

I haven't time to draw a detailed animation by now, but we can try to bring up the following thought experiment:

Lets imagine both the electron, both the photon are wave pockets, which are spreading through undulating vacuum environment full of irregular fluctuations of mass density (the Aether density, be more specific, but it doesn't matter at such example...). The momentary speed of all waves depends on the immediate environment density, which is changing by chaotic way at this case. Well, the resulting path of such wave pocket will be unpredictable, too.

But at the case, you'll send both the electron, both the photon together, the path of both these wave pockets will be affected by the same manner and it will compensate each of other. This is the possibility, how to track the path of electron by deterministic way and to separate the influence of inhomogeneous environment. Therefore, by using of light for determination of the electron momentary position we can exclude the uncertainty coming from random vacuum fluctuations.

A quite simple explanation, huh? Unfortunately, it's not so simple to imagine it, if you don't believe in concept of massive environment for particle/wave spreading, because of misinterpretation of Michelson-Morley experiment before one hundred years...

At such case you have just to believe the quantum theory math and the Feynman wisecrack (1965):

I think I can safely say that no one understands quantum mechanics...

Well, it shouldn't be understood by the way: "if we light up the experiment, no wave patterns appears". The true is, the result of it doesn't depend on the fact, if we carry out the experiment on the dark or not, but if we use the light for the determination of electron location (...in adition to detection screen) or not.

It makes a difference, of course.

What are such reactions? All that is required for electrons is to shine light on them.

Well, it shouldn't be understood by the way: "if we light up the experiment, no wave patterns appears". The true is, the result of it doesn't depend on the fact, if we carry out the experiment on the dark or not, but if we use the light for the determination of electron location (...in adition to detection screen) or not.

It makes a difference, of course.

The light need only be shone on the holes where the electrons are. No measurement to detect them is required.

Nick:

The quantum wavefunction is not a physical wave. It is a caluclating device that depending upon one's interpretation is either not real or is a real object but exists outside of spacetime.

Furthermore, quantum theory doesn't describe matter as particles , but as standing waves in modes or excitation of quantum matter fields. Hence Quantum field theory. Matter is wavelike.

Nick:

The quantum wavefunction is not a physical wave. It is a caluclating device that depending upon one's interpretation is either not real or is a real object but exists outside of spacetime.

Furthermore, quantum theory doesn't describe matter as particles , but as standing waves in modes or excitation of quantum matter fields. Hence Quantum field theory. Matter is wavelike.

Quantum mechanics describes how the waves change and how they move through space and time. It also describes how they interact or their superposition.

I believe quantum waves are real.

Nick:

The quantum wavefunction is not a physical wave. It is a caluclating device that depending upon one's interpretation is either not real or is a real object but exists outside of spacetime.

Furthermore, quantum theory doesn't describe matter as particles , but as standing waves in modes or excitation of quantum matter fields. Hence Quantum field theory. Matter is wavelike.

Quantum mechanics describes how the waves change and how they move through space and time. It also describes how they interact or their superposition.

I believe quantum waves are real.

I think you confusing two notions of waves in quantum theory. Matter is indeed wavelike, we can even see it macroscopically in condensates. But the wavefunction itself has no physical analogue as expressed now.

In what sense do you think that entity is real. It still doesn't explain the two-slit experiment.

A self interfering wave does explain the two slit experiment.

Just a thought .

Imagine a dog in a 10,000 square foot garden (the dog is quite happy and there is a fence round the garden). Divide up the garden into squares of a foot. We keep a record of how much time the dog spends in each square foot of the garden. We let the dog run round the garden for a few days.Dogs will be dogs so after a while a pattern emerges, maybe the dog spends a lot of time running round the edge of the garden, sometimes clockwise, sometimes counter-clockwise. Because its a dog it would be surprising if the dog also spent a lot of time in the middle of the garden and no time in any of the squares in between.. there has to be a path for the dog to get from the outside to the middle so every square where the dog goes has to be linked to every other square where the dog goes. We may have to come back to this later but it will do for now.

Eventually we could draw one of those nice 3D graphs of the amount of time the dog spends in each part of the garden. If we keep doing this for many months we have a choice of drawing a new diagram every day (which would be tedious) or of saying we'll divide the total amount of time the dog has spent in each square by the amount of time we've been watching it for. Joy! its the same graph every day .. as long as the dog carries on doing the same things every day we just need the one graph.

To make this graph even more like a wavefunction we could divide the amount of time (in minutes) the dog spends every day in each square by the number of minutes in a day and we would have the probability of finding the dog in any square. To make sure we've got everything right we need to check that the probability of finding the dog somewhere in the garden is always one.

Obviously .. once you find the dog at a particular spot you can chuck away your probability graph .. all it ever claimed to do was tell you the probability of finding the dog in any particular place.

The graph is 'what it is' .. real or not real ?

If anybody likes the story so far I will go on to a garden with a fence down the middle with two holes in it .

Comments/criticism/advice welcome.

-C2.

This post has been edited by Confused2 on Jul 13 2006, 11:32 AM

The square of the wave function gives the probability of finding the dog(particle.) We know where the particles spend their time.

Each the wave pocket contains the energy. The density of space is proportional the energy density. Thus, the wave pocket is increasing the density of space, dancing in it like wave in gravitational lense at place.



Therefore, the square of the wave function gives the density profile of such wave pocket, too. Just because nearly nobody from mainstream science has believed in massive environment concept of space (i.e. the Aether), such interpretation was left unheeded for more than 100 years from very beginning of quantum mechanic theory. What are we paying these guys for?

This post has been edited by Zephir on Jul 13 2006, 11:49 PM

Hi Nick,Zephir,

Yaay, at least a few people have read it .

Sorry Zephir, I'm not really ignoring you this time .. I just can't see how to fit my dog model into your model .. yet .. who knows what the future holds though.

Yes it's not a perfect model of a proper solution to Schroedinger's equation. Not the least of the problems is that the dog isn't a quantum dog. To make it a more of a quantum dog it would help if it had the same amount of energy all the time. To keep the same amount of energy it's going to have to keep going at the same speed and bounce off the fence like a rubber ball.

The simplest thing that can happen is the dog runs across the garden in a straight line, hits the fence and bounces back in the direction it came, I'm going to call that mode 1. We can immediately see that there are an infinite number of lines up and down the garden where the dog can do this .. an infinity? ... nooooo I was one jump ahead (by a whisker) .. they are ALL mode 1 .. indistinguishable so they are the same.

Criticism (preferably constructive) most welcome.

-C2.