Physicists Persevere In Quest, Full story at http://www.physorg.com/news68372540.html

http://www.physorg.com/news68372540.html

Careful, CAREFUL! Fusion is tempting, but DANGEROUS! Don"t let the children, (college students),play with this one!
Rumor is that Einstein came close to the "magnetic bottle", erased his work, and went home shaking!

E. L. Earnhardt

The most amasing thing for me is that THEY ALL KNOW IT WILL NOT WORK!!!! still they take 10 billions dollars and will be playing this comedy next 10 years ahead.
Listen to what they say - WHEN IT WILL BE BUILT, IT WILL CLOSER THE DAY WHEN WE UNDERSTAND THE TECHNOLOGY AND SCIENCE OF IT! Noone say that it will work and society will be able to benefit from it.

Nick, perhaps you should go look up the word "experimental." The goal of the ITER is not to work as a functional power generator, but rather to test the technology and pave the way for future fusion reactors that will generate commercial energy. Functional fusion reactors generating efficient, clean energy are worth much more than any government is willing to pay. The development of this technology may end up being one of the most important breakthroughs of the century, if all goes well.

10BILLION OF WASTED MONEY!!!!! THEY CAN'T GET IT TO WORK ON THE SMALL SCALE, HOW THE HELL CAN THEY MAKE AN ETERNALLY RUNNING FUSION REACTOR BASED ON THE SUN'S PROCESSES?

THEY DON'T EVEN KNOW HOW THE SUN WORKS! WHAT FUELS THE SUN, WHATS AT THE CENTRE, WHATS JUST BENEATH THE PHOTOSPHERE. ALL THEY SEE IF THE TINY EXTERIOR AND SPECULATE THEY CAN REPRODUCE IT. HELL! THEY DON'T EVEN KNOW HOW THE EARTH'S GRAVITO AND MAGNITOSPHERE WORK!

Look at this, they spend 10billion on some machine that *might* do what exactly? Boil water!!!!!!!!!!!!!! *slaps his head in total disbelief* AARRRGHH!!!! U know what, with dumb-*** ideas like that we deserve to die in a greenhouse hell.

I dearly, dearly, dearly hope we DON'T implement this total waste of money and instead pump all the money into research of NEW energy sources like ZPE, cold fusion, sonafusion, better transducers for wind/wave/solar/cells.

The solution selected,based on Tokamac experiments,may be a wrong way for ITER program.No 500Mw will be realized,the program will fail,just time lost and money spend.Also,cold fusion and sonofusion are wrong solutions,but a better method may be utilized,by selection,and the result will be another for ITER.

I agree with seanu, but not as vehemently lol. This theoretical testing of a new type of thermonuclear generator is utterly stupid because we have not even perfected the process on a small scale test! What makes them think it will work on a large scale situation. we are talking about billions of dollars here! We should be putting such funding toward an energy source that we know on a higher level than that of "theoretical." PAULBORED even the fact that it is used for testing does not make it okay that we are wasting ten billion dollars, when it could be used on more useful methods of creating energy that we have already pioneered and tested. If we weren't so close to having a harmful climate change on our hands, then i would agree with you PAUL. But sadly that is not the case now is it? I say concentrate on the energy that we already know to keep global warming from reaching a critical point, then start messing around with other energies.

the power of the sun and stars , wonderful , consider the size of the sun or a star, and gravity involved, and you think you can make a smaller one? money would be better spent on an extension cord run to the sun .

Stellar models have come on a long way since the advent of computers and while we still cannot predict things like solar flares, we dso understand fusion the general fluid behaviour of the sun and decent amount about magnetohydrodynamics.

Hydrogen, lots and lots of hydrogen.

Scientists take their nuclear physics models and combine them with fluid models and electromagnetic models. If a model predicts something similar to what we observe than it's in the right ball park. As I said, models have gotten a hell of a lot better in recent decades.

Wait, you complain that we don't know how to sun works, yet want to pump money into things which are either considered science fiction, way beyond our abilities or are the most speculative of ideas.

Where do you think the idea of zero point energy comes from? Quantum field theory. What do we use to model the centre of the sun? Quantum field theory. So you're willing to say "I accept quantum field theory works, so we should research ZPE" but in the same breath say "We don't know how the centre of the sun produces energy"? Do you see the contradiction?

That's why electromagnets are used instead.

sorry if this comes out all wrong

[QUOTE]
Hydrogen, lots and lots of hydrogen.
[/QUOTE]

Conjecture. Yes there is a LOT of hydrogen that we can see, but so there is a LOT of other elements. "The running difference imaging technique used by both NASA and Lockheed Martin have revealed to us for the first time that the sun is not simply a ball of hydrogen gas" read here:http://www.thesurfaceofthesun.com/

[quote]
Scientists take their nuclear physics models and combine them with fluid models and electromagnetic models. If a model predicts something similar to what we observe than it's in the right ball park. As I said, models have gotten a hell of a lot better in recent decades.
[/quote]

Tell that to the climatologists. Nearly every single week there's a new announcement that sounds something like "This week a new greenhouse model using newly identified factors predicts worse climate change than last week". Model's are an abstraction of reality. Some work REALLY well, if they have models for ITER, where's the working prototype?

[quote]
Wait, you complain that we don't know how to sun works, yet want to pump money into things which are either considered science fiction, way beyond our abilities or are the most speculative of ideas.
[/quote]

LOL the only science fiction i see here is ITER.

I mean spread the money across more areas of research to find something that works, rather than putting all that money into something that we know doesn't work. By 'works' I mean it transduces energy from one form into electromotive force we can utilise in our technologies, which is the aim of ITER after all. I correct myself, ITER boils water, sorry.

[quote]
Where do you think the idea of zero point energy comes from? Quantum field theory. What do we use to model the centre of the sun?
[/quote]

Apparently "nuclear physics models ... combine ... with fluid models and electromagnetic models". And ...

[quote]
Quantum field theory. So you're willing to say "I accept quantum field theory works, so we should research ZPE" but in the same breath say "We don't know how the centre of the sun produces energy"? Do you see the contradiction?
[/quote]

Erm, you're putting words into my mouth (and assume as well that i have large lungs). BUT, QM might help in our understanding of how the sun works, but we certainly don't know how to apply it in such a way to understand the workings of the sun, by that i mean to create a "model" of the sun.

[quote]
[QUOTE]consider the size of the sun or a star, and gravity involved, and you think you can make a smaller one?
[/QUOTE]That's why electromagnets are used instead.
[/quote][/quote]

The point is, even with electromagnets we have never replicated the apparent sustained fusion processes of the sun, those they are claiming will be produced with ITER. Allen is right! We know of ONLY ONE method of doing it, if you look outside your window on a bright day, you'll see it.

Again: What are they going to do with all the helium?

www.thesurfaceofthesun.com/ is a physic quack site, it is in no way an accepted theory of the sun and the person who wrote it is not a good physicist. For starters, how is the Sun, which is at least 6000C going to have a solid surface is iron when iron melts well before 6000C? No material known can remain solid at those temperatures.

That website is discussed at www.physicsforums.com and completely debunked.