Scientific Forums


Pages: (4) [1] 2 3 ... Last »  ( Go to first unread post )

Add reply · Start new topic · Start new poll


> What is it about mass that slows time?
Nick
Posted: May 22 2006, 12:28 AM


-- LIGHT FELL --
*****

Group: Members
Posts: 5292
Joined: 3-June 05

Positive Feedback: 58.82%
Feedback Score: -40


What is it about the mass density of matter that slows time?
Perhaps time is blocked in some way?

That question gets to the heart of what gravity really must be. a flowing aether.
Top
cefarix
Posted: May 22 2006, 12:47 AM


Member
**

Group: Members
Posts: 289
Joined: 16-February 06

Positive Feedback: 75%
Feedback Score: 4


It is energy which causes spacetime to deform. This causes time to slow down. This according to General Relativity. In my own theory, spacetime is a medium, and energy is equivalent to the density of the spacetime medium. Therefore, an area with a lot mass will have an increase in the density of the spacetime medium, and objects travelling near that area will have their path's refracted. The higher density of the spacetime medium will also cause the speed of light to become slower, leading to gravitational time dilation.
Top
Nick
Posted: May 22 2006, 12:51 AM


-- LIGHT FELL --
*****

Group: Members
Posts: 5292
Joined: 3-June 05

Positive Feedback: 58.82%
Feedback Score: -40


The point is how does it slow time? What about mass energy could do that? biggrin.gif
Top
cefarix
Posted: May 22 2006, 01:02 AM


Member
**

Group: Members
Posts: 289
Joined: 16-February 06

Positive Feedback: 75%
Feedback Score: 4


Good question. According to General Relativity, the definition of energy is that which curves spacetime. So the curvature of spacetime is energy itself. According to my theory, the definition of energy is the density of the spacetime medium. How does this slow time down?

According to General Relativity: The deformation of spacetime geometry is such that both the space and time axes are stretched/compressed as well as rotated. Compression = slowing down of time, stretching = speeding up of time.

According to my theory: High density areas of the spacetime medium have correspondingly higher energy/mass. Because of this, disturbances in the spacetime medium (like light, other particles, basically energy) travel at a slower pace, leading to the slowing down of time.

You should note that both in GR and my model, energy is constantly moving at the speed of light which is local to the area it is in. An object at that's not moving, is still actually moving through time.
Top
Nick
Posted: May 22 2006, 01:08 AM


-- LIGHT FELL --
*****

Group: Members
Posts: 5292
Joined: 3-June 05

Positive Feedback: 58.82%
Feedback Score: -40


Please cefarix just defining mass energy as curving space-time doesn't answer the question of how mass energy accomplishes this. It is still left to answer.
Top
cefarix
Posted: May 22 2006, 01:13 AM


Member
**

Group: Members
Posts: 289
Joined: 16-February 06

Positive Feedback: 75%
Feedback Score: 4


The question to ask would be: How does the curvature of spacetime appear?, since energy is already defined as the curvature of spacetime, to answer that the curvature is caused by energy is now a cyclical definition. So, this is a good question. I don't think present physics has answers on where the curvature of spacetime (or in my theory, the density changes in spacetime) comes from. On the other hand, it is my view that the curvature we see today has evolved according to the laws of physics since the Big Bang. The process necessary for the creation of this curvature also created the Big Bang, and since then the curvature has just evolved along with the rest of the universe as one of its properties.
Top
Zephir
Posted: May 22 2006, 08:42 AM


AWT founder
*****

Group: Members
Posts: 9783
Joined: 27-August 05

Positive Feedback: 48.7%
Feedback Score: -71


QUOTE (Nick @ May 22 2006, 03:51 AM)
The point is how does it slow time? What about mass energy could do that?

I've explained this question in my previous post partially using Aether Wave Theory concept. Suppose the gravitation field surrounding the mass is simply area of more dense vacuum (i.e. the Aether, be more specific), it's quite natural to expect, the energy will transfer by lower speed by such environment. It means, the vibrations penetrating to the particle proximity are working like sort of gravitational lens and such effect can be even directly observable as gradient of space time at larger distances.

The only difference is, we are formed by the same environment, as it's serving for energy wave spreading, so we cannot observe the relative changes of light speed directly, because we are using the same "slowed light" both for time interval, both for distance interval measurements (we're so called "inner observer" of such system). It results to well known special relativity effects and we can observe just wavelength of light changes, i.e. the well known redshift of light near massive body. Technically it means, if we're using the same light both for space and time measurements, the speed of light is pretty invariant by its very definition and the international system of physical units (SI) takes account into it in definition of speed quantity,

The gravitational field, i.e. slightly more dense environment surrounding all the massive bodies result in effect of relative slowing time, because in general it slovens the spreading of energy, it means all the physical phenomena, the speed of which depends on speed of energy transfer. As you can see, the Aether concept enables all the miraculous relativity effects quite conventionally and transparently, using just a classical physic (i.e. optic, in particular) concepts.


--------------------
Aether in one sentence: The particles of reality are formed by observation of reality through density fluctuations of particles of reality.
Please, have look at my posts history [http://superstruny.aspweb.cz] with full-text search before asking for details. Thank you!
Top
amrit
Posted: May 25 2006, 03:10 PM


THE ONLY TIME EXISTS IS INNER TIME
*****

Group: Members
Posts: 2770
Joined: 17-March 05

Positive Feedback: 30.86%
Feedback Score: -203


bigger the mass, bigger density D of space, stronger gravitation, slower speed of material change (also speed of clocks)


--------------------
The universe is in a continuous change. A change n gets transformed into a change n+1, the change n+1 into a change n+2 and so on. Clocks measure a frequency, velocity and numerical order of change. Changes do not occur in time, changes occur in space only. Time is not a part of space. In the space there is no past and no future. Past and future belong to the inner time that is a result of neuronal activity of the brain.
Top
Nick
Posted: May 27 2006, 04:37 PM


-- LIGHT FELL --
*****

Group: Members
Posts: 5292
Joined: 3-June 05

Positive Feedback: 58.82%
Feedback Score: -40


QUOTE (amrit @ May 25 2006, 03:10 PM)
bigger the mass, bigger density D of space, stronger gravitation, slower speed of material change (also speed of clocks)

How does mass density lead to space density?
How does that lead to time slowing down?
Top
Zephir
Posted: May 27 2006, 04:50 PM


AWT founder
*****

Group: Members
Posts: 9783
Joined: 27-August 05

Positive Feedback: 48.7%
Feedback Score: -71


QUOTE (Nick @ May 27 2006, 07:37 PM)
How does mass density lead to space density? How does that lead to time slowing down?

By a quite simple way. The gravitation field is the manifestation of energy/mass density gradient of space. Each particle spreads part of it's internal energy into its neighborhood, thus increasing the energy content and creating a gravitational gradient here.

user posted image

Suppose the vacuum is mostly formed by inertial energy, each increasing of energy content increases it's density too. As the result, the inner motion of particle makes the neighboring vacuum more dense, too. And the higher is environment density, the slower is the energy spreading in it, the slower are all the physical processes, which depends on the energy spreading too. You can imagine, the time proceeds very slowly inside the matter and each the particle of matter is spreading such slowness to its neighborhood.


--------------------
Aether in one sentence: The particles of reality are formed by observation of reality through density fluctuations of particles of reality.
Please, have look at my posts history [http://superstruny.aspweb.cz] with full-text search before asking for details. Thank you!
Top
Nick
Posted: May 27 2006, 04:55 PM


-- LIGHT FELL --
*****

Group: Members
Posts: 5292
Joined: 3-June 05

Positive Feedback: 58.82%
Feedback Score: -40


Mass is a pinpoint property. It is concentrated energy zeph.
Top
Zephir
Posted: May 27 2006, 04:58 PM


AWT founder
*****

Group: Members
Posts: 9783
Joined: 27-August 05

Positive Feedback: 48.7%
Feedback Score: -71


QUOTE (Nick @ May 27 2006, 07:55 PM)
Mass is a pinpoint property.  It is concentrated energy zeph.

Yes, therefore is quite natural, it can spread its energy to its neighborhood. It would be quite strange, if the presence of matter would decrease the energy density in it's proximity, don't you think?


--------------------
Aether in one sentence: The particles of reality are formed by observation of reality through density fluctuations of particles of reality.
Please, have look at my posts history [http://superstruny.aspweb.cz] with full-text search before asking for details. Thank you!
Top
Nick
Posted: May 27 2006, 05:04 PM


-- LIGHT FELL --
*****

Group: Members
Posts: 5292
Joined: 3-June 05

Positive Feedback: 58.82%
Feedback Score: -40


QUOTE (Zephir @ May 27 2006, 04:58 PM)
QUOTE (Nick @ May 27 2006, 07:55 PM)
Mass is a pinpoint property.  It is concentrated energy zeph.

Yes, therefore is quite natural, it can spread its energy to its neighborhood. It would be quite strange, if the presence of matter would decrease the energy density in it's proximity, don't you think?

It can only spread its concentrated energy by radiating electromagnetic waves. Its gravity is created only by its pinpoint mass energy. tongue.gif
Top
Zephir
Posted: May 27 2006, 05:12 PM


AWT founder
*****

Group: Members
Posts: 9783
Joined: 27-August 05

Positive Feedback: 48.7%
Feedback Score: -71


QUOTE (Nick @ May 27 2006, 08:04 PM)
It can only spread its concentrated energy by radiating electromagnetic waves. Its gravity is created only by its pinpoint mass energy. tongue.gif

Well, the situation can be right opposite: for example quark or electron appears dimensionless being observed by light scattering, but it can have some real shape and nonzero diameter under observation of gravitational waves. Of course, these waves are pretty subtle, so that the detector being able to observe the spatial nuances would be incredibly sensitive. Another possibility is to use the weak interaction for observation at low distances. BTW Each the energy has its own corresponding mass, so that the particle spreading some energy in form of EMG charge isn't fully "pinpoint" even with respect of it's EMG energy spreading.

This post has been edited by Zephir on May 27 2006, 06:27 PM
Top
Nick
Posted: May 27 2006, 06:04 PM


-- LIGHT FELL --
*****

Group: Members
Posts: 5292
Joined: 3-June 05

Positive Feedback: 58.82%
Feedback Score: -40


I say pinpoint not meaning zero dimensional. I believe that there are two types of the infnitely small. One is zero the other nonzero. So there is a nonzero extension to particles. Einstein believed it was matter's extension that gave rose to space.I say it is matter's motion and its extension.

EMG? What does this stand for? electromagnetic gravity? Sound like nonsense to me.
Top

Topic Options Pages: (4) [1] 2 3 ... Last »

Add reply · Start new topic · Start new poll


 

Terms of use