Problem with the two slit experiment, Observing later

Hi all,


THEY,


Even if you had read everything perfectly in this thread, you probably couldn't get the entire idea I am saying. Believe it or not, this is (stuff in this thread) all in the interest of explaining the DSE.

I feel the frequency of the cavity needs to be included in the analysis.


You CAN use the tuning you find on the internet. You have to start at A.440 and work your way up or down.


The turning point here is the irrational number produced by dividing 2 (the natural octave, resonant ratio) by 12 equal parts. The INVERSE of this integer division is AN INCREASING RATE (frequency=cycles per second).

Start with 1, multiply (recursively) by 2^(1/12), until you reach 2. Takes this set of irrationals, and convert to fractions. Now you see the SET of ratios that can fully describe the system. (not just Pythagorean ratios)


This is QUANTUM music. Equal parts (discreet). Jumps to specific energies (resonance). The INVERSE law: integers on one side produce (mostly) irrationals on the other side. "Spin" is inherent to this as well. You need to see the matrix for this to be "instinctive". The visible and audible spectra's, the elements, the particles, BY MEASURING with a system designed to DETECT resonances, and starting from >1. (zero point)



regards,

T.Roc



This post has been edited by TRoc on Dec 8 2006, 08:32 PM

Good Elf, TRoc, and Everyone,

Regarding the metamaterial develoment article and simulations shown here:

http://www.external.ameslab.gov/final/News/Lightmovies.htm

Left hand diffraction? Is it really diffraction or atomic scale mirroring where
the image and polarity of the applied pulse is reversed?

In movie #2, it shows how an applied pulse is delayed and attenuated
while passing thru a metamaterial and suffering "dispersion" energy
loss of the amplitude of the pulse. This is a signal "delay line" technique used
in an "old technology" analog radar system. The delay line in that application
was a "tuned" crystal component that effectively slowed a sample of each radar
frequency pulse so it could be used to provide a time coincident "delay" reference
between transmitted and received pulses which was later compared in the
electronics circuitry. There is a propagation delay latency, and energy attenuation,
thru refractive materials as energy waves react with the atomic structure.

A good reference:
http://science.howstuffworks.com/framed.ht...frn/u14l2b.html

LL

This post has been edited by Laserlight on Dec 8 2006, 08:41 PM

Hi guys,

Troc, your not the first to think of this so I hope it reinforces your direction.

http://crystal.chem.utk.edu/Outreach/atomi...tom/qmatom.html


"THEY",
http://www.rdrop.com/users/tblackb/music/temperament/

Duality/Lisa

Ok I am about to just throw music theory out the window and use "quantum music theory" math instead.

Bear with me here and I will prove myself where I am coming from, then I (personally) will hopefully be able to move forward into your theory with the "modeling" I have learned from music theory and "approximate" it into your theory and see where it gets me. Confused? so am I..............

Ok... getting down to number crunching which is what I do best..
(D)588 - (B)494 = 94
(B)494 - (G)392 = 102
(D)588 - (G)392 = 196
196 + 102 + 94 = 392 = G

Now using the piano tuning chart in the link Lisa provided
(D)587.329535834815 - (B)493.883301256124 = 93.446234578
(B)493.883301256124 - (G)391.995435981749 = 101.887865275
(D)587.329535834815 - (G)391.995435981749 = 195.334099853
and the sums (verified on adding machine, my #s may be wrong on this page...)

equals 390.668199706 which is not equal to (G)391.995435981749 so if you played that pitch I would shiver and tell you to "tune up"...

My conclusion here is that you can model it APPROXIMATELY with a Western Major chord but not EXACTLY. This should make Good Elf happy, I remember him uttering a distasteful note (pun) a while back that the universe wouldn't pick western tones over others.

So now where do I go with this since all my red flags just went away? We have a QUANTUM MUSIC theory that approximates a chord that seems to have beat and frequencies and harmonics and all the fun stuff?

THEY, all,

Now you see the Pythagoras' theorem explanation can be used to describe waves/particles in classical terms. Check into it, and to think it was back, WHEN?

They might have been a tight and close society, for we only have very little information on there discipline, but it will humble a person when you see the power of the mind when focused.

Duality/Lisa

All? (anyone?)

[ quote=Duality/Pythagoras]
... electrons ... i.e. the motions along each coordinate, is uncoupled from the motions that involve the other coordinates. We therefore expect to have independent motions that depend only on each of the coordinates and, ... [ /quote]

electrons... and some kind of local coordinate system?

Might photons need a slightly more general coordinate system?

Oh dear!

Best wishes,

-C2.

Need a mental break from work so here I am

in retrospect, the frequencies ARE close enough that the math DOES work from a music point of view. Just don't try to tune my piano to your hz or i will slap your hand! My question, why is a perfectly tuned piano NOT the exact same frequencies as your chart?

Now to the musical DSE. If you throw a computer in the room, will it hear harmonics? (pattern). If you throw ME in the room, will I hear a single tone? (observer collapsing the waveform)

Hi Laserlight, "THEY" and "THEY 2", Yquantum, Duality, Jal, Confused2, TRoc et al,

We sure seem to be "hitting the light cone wall" regarding this concept stretching that analogy a little. The concept of "primary charge" is inconsistent with my theory. Indeed the only "primary anything" is electromagnetic energy dynamically propagating in "free higher dimensional space".

That is why it is called Geometrodynamics. In a "slogan"...
JA Wheeler said...

A completely geometric theory ultimately removing all these concepts as primary. And then extending into the Holographic Universe and the AdS/CFT of Juan Maldacena ultimately even removing Gravity and reduction of dimensions to boundaries as in the Weak Holographic Principle. In the end anything less than this will fail because its "vision" was too limited. Still... an "elephant" needs to be described in terms of what we know so others can grasp the "vision" too since we can all suffer selective "blindness".

Your comment above does not recognize that when I am saying "orthogonal" I mean to our three dimensional space not just to one or more dimensions. The other issue you seem not to be able to consider is the concept of the "untouched quantum". You are pushing a purely classical interpretation as proposed in the 19th Century. While photons can be absorbed in various processes they cannot be partially absorbed of "worn down"... as in the old classical point of view... where each and every photon losing tiny bits of energy through continuous emission and absorption events. This classical view is flawed and is not borne out by experiment. To me experiment is the ultimate test of any scientific theory and if a theory does not pass that test it is to be totally discarded. While emission and absorption may occur in an individual photon this destroys qubits. Maybe I will drop this concept for now since this is not "everyones" theory.

I do not want to debate the meaning of various experimental outcomes and try and split hairs. We should be on topic with the DSE and questions related to that specifically.
Wikipedia: Geometrodynamics
Wikipedia: AdS/CFT correspondence

Cheers

Hi All,

This might have some bearing on the theories in progress..

Good Elf .. I'm sorry but your theories have previously mostly been a potential solution to a problem that I was not aware of. I hope we have agreed to differ on the random/not random nature of the photon counts, likewise the wavefunction-psi and superpositions thereof.

TRoc.. this may be relevent to your ideas too, maybe not.

New problem.

We have spaceships at velocity v1 and v2 relative to Deep space Nine. . Ship one sends a beam of light at frequency f to the other one. We leave it to the smart guys to work out the red/blue and Doppler shifts and when they've given us the answer we use de Broglie to tell us the energy of the photon that ship two will detect. Sooo ... when the photon was in between .. did it it have the energy it was transmitted with or the energy it was received with or something else entirely?

Comments/therapy most welcome,

Best wishes,

-C2.

Good Day!
Should we not look at the actual experiment and do less speculating?
http://www.tongue-twister.net/mr/physics/entangled.htm

That is an interpretation.
As a matter of fact ...if you look closely you can count the photons ... 1/2 went right and made a circle and the other 1/2 went left and made a circle.
Where the two circle intersect, there are twice as many photons than in the rest of the circle. That is what got captured by the film.

Look at what has been produced .... Then ... apply your interpretation.
Where is the picture of the bubble? You are making it up. Where is the evidence that there are only two photons? You are making it up.

Comments on the experiments.
jal

Hi Laserlight, "THEY" and "THEY 2", Yquantum, Duality, Jal, Confused2, TRoc, Good Elf, all, Hey how did I get in there? copy from GE's, greeting.

Confused2, I was just illustrating how the Pythagoras theorem was in common with the music/tones/frequency well you get the notes of the comment.

Your deep space nine, I am not sure I have heard of that satellite, do you know what country was responsible, and what is its function?

Duality/Lisa

Someone sent this in hopes you would have some fun, and it just might put you all back in Kansas.

http://www.lifesci.sussex.ac.uk/home/John_...bin/quantum.htm

This post has been edited by Duality on Dec 9 2006, 02:47 AM

Hi Jal and All,

I just lost my hard drive and am in the recovey mode with a new drive...pain in
the arse....

Jal, if you superimpose the 2 circular patterns of each photon on top of each other
you will find that they are concentric. IMO, this is a confirmation of entanglement.
The fact that they are not exactly overlapping is either showing a slight phasing
or slight energy mismatch, which has other implications, IMO.

I believe that if you were to project the side view waveform representations
of the entire concentric arrangement onto a 2D screen you would observe the
same banding interference patterns that are seen on the DSE screen. JMHO.



LL

This post has been edited by Laserlight on Dec 9 2006, 03:42 AM

Duality - I just got home and read your last link to me: http://www.terryblackburn.us/music/temperament/index.htmlNooooooooo! I am going to throw myself out the window! My piano isn't tuned perfectly! That paper wound up being FAR more fascinating than I thought it would.

Troc - please read this link and see if it affects your work in any way. It shouldn't since you have the math, BUT..... I can't tune my piano PERFECTLY and have an octave. Hm, and I always thought I was nuts for thinking I heard beats.... (that was probably explained to me when I was 6, but what 6 year old would understand you can't tune w/o SOME minor beats???) So why would you tune to perfect "fifths" with no beats, and not be able to obtain an octave???? WEll, I guess this problem (as the article says) has been around for centuries. So I stand corrected. The math works for your model, NOT MY PIANO. (sob!) sO why does it seem to work for "tuning light waves" and not sound waves..... and why... But I don't feel like going nuts tonight so I won't think of why my piano can't be tuned properly. Could be interesting to buy a 2nd piano for though. If you only played a linear melody it would be interesting to hear a "perfectly tuned piano"..... (that couldn't play an octave)

Well, as jal said a few minutes ago, this thread IS rather off track. And I surely am off topic! (although it may affect Troc's model)

LETS GET BACK TO THE DSE!!!! I will just say so far I think Troc's work is interesting and will investigate further after birthday parties are done.

Actually, just re reading my post, [QUOTE me in this post]why does it work for "tuning light waves" and not sound waves..... [/QUOTE] DOES IT? Is it just a mathematical coincidence that it works for light? I need to see more than the music part.....

ps to duality - deep space nine is a tv program - a mythical space station

This post has been edited by "THEY" on Dec 9 2006, 03:44 AM

Hi Duality,

From the page that Duality offered as a "help"... my view is "what mysteries?"... I can see a lot of quantum mumbo jumbo when people speak with "awe" and in lowered tones when discussing with the "Pope" on these matters of "Orthodox Doctrine"...

It seems to me these statements are "offered" without justification. Sure... 19th Century Physics can't explain these things but revised with 21st Century semi-classical theory and the results of well devised experiments we most certainly can. These statements just are "empty rhetoric" containing nothing more than appellation to "authority" (as eminent as it is). If we really believed that "authority" is the way we run our World then Adolf Hitler should have been made World President since he was the chief exponent of this "philosophy".

Anyone who actually believed in Science would always demonstrate, without any shadow of ambiguity, what is the most important experiment that demonstrates why this statement is true and why no existing explanation is possible. I think that the answer is very "simple", can be shown by by a simple college experiment, and able to be practically demonstrated. The Delayed Choice Quantum Eraser is working with standing waves set up along the "short" dimensional "resonant" path in space to the rest of the Universe (from beyond our time). The photon, once it "knows" everything about that path, apparently traces it out in time through propagation.

Clearly another case of resonance along that short path, mentioned above, that leads to the standing waves in higher dimensions. The standing wave pattern "conditions" events occurring in that propagating "event".

Violation of Canonical Typicality. These guys are talking through their "hat". While it is true to say that 50% of the world's population are males and 50% are females it is not true to say that a single measurement will surely indicate that a single individual is 50% male and 50% female at the same time. Waves of probability just do not exist since a single photon does not have a statistical "distribution". It is true to say that a number of photons have a statistical distribution... and that is ABSOLUTELY ALL that can be said about an "ensemble" of photons. In the case of a single photon we know that the photon will land on a place that does not involve noise related signal. A photon can travel from a distant star system to earth taking billions of years and the image is just as crisp as the day the photons started on their journey. If noise was introduced into the system the nature of the source would be lost with increasing distance. So while we do not know where a particular photon will land on a screen we do know that the photon and its qubit reflects the source in "perfect" detail as long as it is still in a quantum mode. People should stop repeating "theories" which were in vogue 80 years ago when there was no experimental evidence. I am appalled by the naivety of this analysis.

Space is "quantized" such that we have standing waves in and around "barriers". If a particle strikes a barrier where there is an anti-node, there is a very high probability that the particle will be "absorbed" or scattered. If there is a node at that point it is almost impossible for a particle to be scattered or absorbed at a node since there is none of the energy of the particle there. If the barrier is thin enough the particle might pass through the barrier without any interaction. You can see this occurring in the vacuum in a similar way to the way it occurs in certain meta-materials. The speed is the same as in this case...
Boyd on Faster than light "voids"...

Particles do not just "deflect" through the slots but they do form standing waves. This analysis shows a lack of real understanding of the events and "glossing" over the important details. Everything makes waves but for waves to work with large atoms they must literally interfere with themselves and not with any other particles. A particle can actually interfere or be scattered with other particles unlike bosons. The experiment is best done with real particles one atom at a time. The atoms must be "velocity selected" and for reasonable wavelengths the velocity will need to be really very low. The "dumbed down" statements are created to present the maximum "shock and awe".

This is not the appearance of the Blessed Virgin Mary at Lourdes but is presented to the "flock" that is about to be "fleeced" as an "apparition" of almost religious significance. Wide eyed credulity is usually required before "Doubting Thomas" demands a close examination of the eyewitness accounts.

Comments greatfully examined. However a "Profession of Faith" document will need to be signed before admission.

Cheers

This post has been edited by Good Elf on Dec 9 2006, 05:01 AM

Good day all!
I had to take a quick peek at the thread.

Laserlight

STOP!
Explain to me how those two photons with their discreate energy can "light up" those thousands of electrons AND in two circles.
Let's stay with the simple explanation.
SORRY ... Lets look an experiment that can confirm that 2 photon will move in a circular pattern.
What is the underlying mechanism?
How can you demonstrate that there were not 10^6 photons making those two circles?
jal