Problem with the two slit experiment, Observing later

Here u can see the gamma ray photons in the spark chamber, or the result of double slit experiment with the photons... Of course, you can continue in the refusal of particle nature of photon, but I'm not obliged to believe you....



Nevertheless, we can imagine the radiation of the dipole antennae, which appears as a perfectly homogeneous spherical wave at the first sight - so we can ask, where are all these photons, after then??? The AWT just proposes an elegant solution of this dilemma in foam concept of energy wave spreading. Each the wave shakes the foam, thus making it temporarily more dense at this point. So we can have both the wave, both the particle blob at the same time and place. And everybody remains happy.

BTW The standard interpretation of the smooth dipole wave by the contemporary quantum mechanic (i.e. by the QED, be more specific) is, it's the result of the superposition of many quantum states of individual electrons in the antennae, which are releasing the photons by the non-coherent way.

This idea is not very different from the concept of light spreading through Aether foam, where each the photon can be considered as the result of superposition of many smaller more fundamental bosons or quantum loops. But such insight doesn't exclude the existence of the photon wave packet neither. Nobody says, the photon must be some quite homogeneous wave.



This post has been edited by Zephir on Feb 18 2007, 11:31 PM

Long time everyone, [this is mostly for "THEY"2]

http://lizwaldner.wordpress.com/2006/06/16...uantum-physics/

ciao_
yquantum

Zephir,

Can you explain the straight lines of the gamma rays (photon's) in the spark chamber? I don't know what the picture is showing. Is it a photo taken
perpendicular to the source, or parallel? As it is there is no way to describe
the events shown. Can you provide a reference that describes the picture?

How big is a photon particle? Consider a 10 meter wavelength radio transmission
vs an x-ray wavelength. Remember they are both wavelengths
not particles, also photons have no detectable mass and do not have collisions
with other photons that changes their direction of "flight".

We have analyzed the photo tube photon spot results....I'll let someone else
answer how we answered that result.

Regards,
LL

By AWT the photons are the result of the interference of light wave with the carrier fluctuations of vacuum (gravitons waves), which are of Planck length size (10E-35). From this insight, the average size of the photon wave packets can be estimated easily, because the frequency of interference pattern is proportional to the ratio of frequencies.



For example, at the case of light of wavelength 10-9 meters (soft X-ray radiation) the corresponding photon size will be 10-9 x 10-9 / 10-35 = 10-17 meters (slightly above atom nuclei diameter range 10-18 m). This is the reason, why such photons will not be scattered by the electron orbitals (which are much more larger), but they will dispersed by the atom nuclei, thus forming the interference patterns as the result of X-ray diffraction, which can be used for determination of crystal structures, for example.

At the case of dipole antenae radiation, the average size of photon wave packets will be 10+1 x 10+1 / 10-35 = 10+33 meters, i.e. the substantially larger, then the estimated diameter of the whole observable Universe. We can consider the microwave bacground radiation as the waves, the photon size of which corresponds roughly the size of Universe, because they have had appeared as the result of primordial standing waves of the whole Universe. By such way, the photon size enables us to estimate the observable Universe diameter easily.



This post has been edited by Zephir on Feb 18 2007, 11:48 PM

Zephir,

All free form energy travels as waves. Even non-coherent (amorphous) light
is comprised of numerous discrete constant wave functions with each propagating
at their specific energy/frequency. Non-coherent light can be separated into
its coherent sub component frequencies by using bandpass filters to remove
unwanted frequencies. They are travelling together at the same speed but are
separated by their frequencies. The only reason that they look non-coherent is
because they are saturating the detectors of our eyes which cannot descriminate
each individual frequency from the high contrast "noise" caused by the entire
spectrum being received. Ever see pictures of nebuli in the universe? The
color of the pictures is resolved by using individual color filters and taking a long
exposure of each and then overlaying the individual colors to provide color
resolution.



By the way images on this link Hubble Images can be saved as desktop images for your computer screen.
LL

This post has been edited by Laserlight on Feb 18 2007, 11:52 PM

Hello all

Last time I checked gamma rays are not cosmic rays. Cosmic ray are really just very high speed particles.

Montec,

You are correct! Thanks for stating that. They are accelerated electrons travelling
near the speed of light. Their speed is caused by electromagnetic fields from
high energy stellar events.

LL

Laserlight

I think most cosmic rays are actually protons, if I remember correctly.

Zephir,

So what size are 10 meter photon particles? I assume that you are not
suggesting that they are larger than the universe. You have resorted to
photon wave packets which seems to conflict with your prior statement about
particles.

We have hypothesized that the point where each discrete photon wavelet in a
photon wavefront releases the energy that it contains by resonating with a
receiving dipole in an atom(s), and a secondary photon is emitted by that atom.
It is detected thru atomic absorption/resonance and re-emits (reflects) that photon
wave pulse which we see. It is an absorption, re-emission/reflection process
of EM energy.

Regards,
LL

The small fraction of cosmic rays is formed by the photons directly. Nevertheless, the spark chamber is used just for the detection of gamma ray photons, which are difficult to detect by other ways. The another method of gamma and X-ray photons detection is the scintillation. Again, the sparks in scintillators occurs in pin-point places (the greek word "scintilla" just means the spark), therefore the short wavelength photons are really behaving like the pin-point particles.

This post has been edited by Zephir on Feb 19 2007, 12:28 AM

Montec,

I stand corrected! Thank you for correcting me.


Regards,
LL

From Wikipedia:

Cosmic rays: Wikipwdia

This post has been edited by Laserlight on Feb 19 2007, 12:29 AM

Hello All,

The following is not necessarily directly relevant to the DSE but I thought that
I would offer it for your contemplation.

------

We often hear that the universe is expanding and the expansion appears to be
accelerating. Immediately, a question arises, what is the universe expanding into?

This outline overview is meant as a proposal that explores the meaning of space and the
extent and characteristics of the known physical domains that exist within it. The
purpose is to set a foundation and comparison to describe the attributes of infinite space
(without energy) vs. finite space that “contains” energy. It is important to differentiate
between the two separate conditions as they represent different relative energy “states”.

For purposes of comparison, finite space is proposed to be the “energetic universe” or
space-time continuum to which we belong, while infinite space is considered to be the dimensionless “void” that the “energetic universe” is attempting to fill by expanding into
it.

In order to try to understand the concepts of infinite space and finite space some
characteristic properties must be assigned to define the qualities that differentiate them. By defining the characteristics of each, it can be easily determined that their attributes are
diametrically opposed. Their is a Yin-Yang relationship that exists between them, a
“marriage” of opposites that follows the laws of thermodynamics and energy transfer.

Much of what follows is personal “conjecture” and opinion based on observation and
interpretation of other theories.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laws_of_thermodynamics

“Attributes” of Infinite Space:

1. Infinite space has no orientation without a physical point of relative reference.
a. No up, down, left, or right
b. No dimensional reference, no x ,y, z planes of reference
c. No time reference
d. No temperature reference (absolute zero degrees K)
e. No energy signature reference (EM energy)
f. It is the void, total emptiness, a constant “state” of nothing

2. It is dimensionless and omnidirectional. It has no frame of temporal or spatial
reference.

3. It is infinite, it has no exterior bounds.

4. It has no mass and no physical quality that can be quantified or measured.

5. It has no time/infinite time. There can be no passage or reference to time without
incurring a “change of state”, which is relative to and caused by an exchange of
energy.

6. It is a “medium” for conveying free form energy. Space has permittivity and
permeability and changes state with the introduction of energy, such as:
a. magnetic fields
b. electric fields
c. gravitational fields
d. radiation (EM fields)


Attributes of Finite Space (the space-time continuum):

1. Finite Space has “volume”. Volume can be described as the “confinement” of energy
that is contained within a “finite” boundary region. The “boundary” is expanding
along a wave front bubble of propagating energy that is perpetually encroaching on, and
merging with, infinite space.

2. Finite space and infinite space are merging along an expanding energy wave front
where the dimension of time is being “created”. The dimension of time is produced
by the change of state from a dimensionless non-energetic condition, to an
energetically dynamic temporal state with time relevance.

3. The “universe”, as we know it, has time relevance because the dynamic energy
states that it contains within its expanding boundaries change form and relative
position as the universe expands and “ages”. Change, by its very nature is a
function of time as it relates to energy movement over distance.

4. Finite space has a temperature greater than absolute zero and contains all the
primordial energy released from the big bang. The echo's of this energy
signature is the cosmic microwave background radiation. This energy and the
energy released from stellar events is expanding into infinite space and is
contained within the confined 4D bubble of the known universe.


The Geometry of 4D space:
Requires at least 2 points of physical reference to determine a line
Requires at least 3 points of physical reference to determine the orientation of a plane
Requires at least 4 points of random offset reference to determine 2 intersecting planes
Requires a delta change over distance between any 2 points to determine time
Orientation of position requires 3 points of reference (triangulation).

LL

This post has been edited by Laserlight on Feb 19 2007, 02:21 AM

Zephir, why does light have to be a particle?

Why can't it be existing as a energy which is passed along in the small sub-space between particles of the aether? Extra energy carried along as extra spin angular momentum.

The whole point of the aether for explaining the propagation of light is that light travels like a 'wave' over the surface of the aether.

If you're treating light purely as a particle, you don't need an Aether.

But if the photon is the aether vibration equivalent of the phonon, then it would pass through the aether in the same way heat is passed along as atomic vibration through carbon nanotubes.

Of course the light is not required to be particle, if you don't want to be. But you should propose some mechanism, hot to create the particle from the wave by the seamless and reversible way. Furthermore, you should consider the relativistic stance, which considers, the difference between the particle and wave is just in the observer perspective. At the end, you should explain/interpret the physical meaning of the mass-energy equivalence principle (E=mc^2). By using of the Aether foam concept such understanding is simple: the introducing of some energy into some place of Aether foam makes the foam more dense, then the rest of environment. The particle-wave duality manifests here by the easy and natural way.

But the light IS NOT "just a pure particle", it has a well pronounced wave character, too... The purpose of AWT is not to adhere on some particular perspective, but to comprehend all the existing views into single universal concept. I can understand the motivation of the people, which are believing, the light is just a wave or just a particle, but my motivation is to demonstrate, both these people can have it's own truth at the same time/place.