Problem with the two slit experiment, Observing later

Hi Zephir and all.

Maybe your theory should have a space of it's own ;)
Still,

---------------------------

" he math background of Aether Wave theory (AWT) consist in the common solution of two equations:

1) the wave equation user posted image
2) the mass-energy equivalence principle user posted image

These equations are describing the oscillations of massive elastic string, where the mass density of string is always proportional to it's energy density in each moment & location. Here's lot of ways, how to solve such system and such solution is job for math, not for physic. "

-------------------------------

OK Aether, why not, space seems wobbly right ;)
But here your talking about strings ? What happened with the foam ?
Is it there on a more macroscopic level then. And wide open to all kinds of possibilities? So what we have are those ( Onedimensionell? Oscillating? ) strings that go their merry way until they transform into foam whereupon they open themselves to all possibilities.

Whereupon we only can perceive our space time as that was the only possible solution we know of ? (my suggestion kind of:))

It's possible, but it gives me a headache.

.......................

This post has been edited by yor_on on Feb 18 2007, 07:59 PM

I'm curious...

I keep hearing the word 'quantum foam' brought up, and I realize it's a model of 'virtual' particle-antiparticle interactions at sub-planck length, but other than that I don't see much work done modelling it or expanding on the model.

These particle-antiparticle pairs are charged and they can also form 0-spin bosons, which amounts to 'bubbles' of quantum foam... correct?

I'm just curious, because I see links between this 'quantum foam' analogy and the Higg's Ocean or Dirac Sea.

The strings are just the foam membranes and connections, i.e. the density fluctuations of the Aether. If you're considering the Aether concept. just to use it.



The important thing for interpretation of double slit experiment and whole the quantum mechanic is, the foam becomes more dense after introducing some energy by the same way, like the soap foam, shaken in evacuated vessel. It results into typical nonlinear behavior of quantum wave, which interferes with it's own density profile (compare the 1D, 2D simulation)



The common particles are just dense blobs of such foam, by AWT.

This post has been edited by Zephir on Feb 18 2007, 08:22 PM

Hi all,


As Zephir stated, this is a Public Forum. As such, it is "regulated" in the same manner as out in the "real world": by the free will of the participants. Law and order is based on the participants "going along" with an ordered plan.

That said, could you please take the AWT discussions to the AWT thread?


Thanks,

T.Roc


Laserlight: just in case you missed my last post, directed towards you.. link


This post has been edited by TRoc on Feb 18 2007, 08:26 PM

Of course, and I'd prefer, the Good Elf will take the Fourier Transform theory discussion in it's own thread, too. The AWT is linked beneath each the AWT word, so everybody is welcomed to continue here in further discussion. Of course, if somebody put the question concerning the AWT here, I can expect, he's expecting the answer at the same place, too.

My last entry into discussion wasn't about the AWT, but about the fact, the GoodElf is promoting his own theory too, although it cannot explain anything. I've no problem with the foreign concept, but at the case, they cannot explain anything I'd prefer more relevant and matter of fact discussion about subject.

Another question is, how do you want to explain/interpret the two slit experiment without introducing of any private concepts, because the common understanding of quantum mechanic by mainstream physic is, this theory has no viable explanation. Maybe you're more clever, then the Feynman and Dirac together and you can explain the quantum mechanic postulates just by using of quantum mechanic postulates - but frankly, I don't believe so,...

This post has been edited by Zephir on Feb 18 2007, 08:35 PM

Zephir,

Understood. I was just trying to direct some of the "newer" members to your page, if they are interested. I agree with your statement regarding Fourier Transform, but at least it was in an attempt to explain the DSE.

I don't think that AWT makes any predictions about "foam diffraction patterns", but maybe I missed that? I understand the general mechanism that you talk about, but we need to know how "foam~foam" interactions would produce light and dark bands, on a "foam based screen/detector". Does each quanta of "foam" have an energy level, that would be described by a frequency?

No one here is expressly against "personal interpretations", to my knowledge. You are correct in saying that it is impossible to "explain the quantum mechanic postulates just by using of quantum mechanic postulates". People seem to forget this. It WILL be necessary to "falsify" some of their initial claims, that were later interpreted to mean "QM".


regards,

T.Roc



This post has been edited by TRoc on Feb 18 2007, 08:39 PM

Hmmm... does 'quantum foam' produce 'mach lines'?

The problem is, I explained the DSE here by many times, but "thanks" to GoodElf and similar experts I'm forced to explain it again and again. Fortunately, the repetition is the mother of wisdom and the explanation is simple:

The rule No. 1: Every increasing of energy density in the foam makes the foam more dense (...well, like the shaking of the soap foam in the evacuated vessel, here's nothing about it, in prinicple.

The rule No. 2: Every energy wave prefers the more dense places of foam for the subsequent spreading.
This is why, the sound waves will spread along the iron rod submerged into water, not through the water directly. The iron rod is more dense place for the energy spreading, so that most of the sound energy will remain concentrated here. After all, this is why the particles are attracted by the other massive objects by AWT, because they're formed by the waves and the vacuum is more dense near the massive objects, so the waves are preffering to spread here, being deflected by the gravitational field of this object.

The rule No. 3: Every massive object moving through environment containing the transversal surface waves will generate the additional waves during it's motion, which are perpendicular to the object motion direction.
Well, exactly like the duck or fish swimming beneath the water surface. This wave is called the deBroglie wave by it's inventor. The important thing is, it makes the vacuum more dense like each additional shaking of Aether foam. In fact, it accumulates so called relativistic mass of fastly moving objects.



The rest is rather easy: The particle is moving towards the double slit. I creates the perpendicular waves around it like the duck or fish swimming through foam. This radius of these perpendicular waves is much larger then the particle, so it can interfere with both the slits at the same time under formation of flabelliform patterns. These patterns are making the Aether forms less and more dense in the places, given by common interference condition. The particle is formed by the standing wave too, so it prefers the more dense places for the further spreading by reproducible way. Therefore each the particles spreading in subsequent experiments will prefer the path of flabelliform patterns. That's all.



This post has been edited by Zephir on Feb 18 2007, 09:09 PM

TRoc,

I am impressed! Someone actually took the time and patience to understand
my theoretical proposals....THANK YOU!!!

I think that you have either misinterpreted my position or else I have not
expressed it clearly so as to eliminate misunderstanding.

You are correct, the EM pulse is the photon, but the EM pulse
wavefunction is comprised of millions of coherent wavelet EM pulses from
discrete source atoms. The number of individual wavelet EM pulses are
synchronous but spacially displaced within the expanding wavefront. All of them
combined are what gives the wavefunction its intensity. They are all propagating
at the same frequency and their EM components are temporaly aligned and self
regenerating to the wave pulse.

I have stated that a photon can only interfere with itself and not other separate
photons pulses in free space, they pass right thru each other with no interaction.
They are not perfectly time and phase coincident and resonant to each other and
are separate timing events emanating from different causal events arising from matter releasing energy in the form of an EM pulse. Conversely, an individual
photon can interfere with itself or other photons when matter acts as an
energy mixing catalyst under the right resonance conditions. I have
agreed with this point that you made since you first presented the idea. I see no
conflict with this argument.

You initially proposed that when 2 separate frequencies merge there is a beat
frequency that occurs. IMO, this is only partially correct. A beat frequency only
occurs when both frequencies combine at a point of resonance that occurs
by interacting with physical matter. The separate frequencies will remain isolated
from each other but when combined together in the presence of a 3rd element
that mixes their individual components, the mixing will saturate/blend the signals
at the point of mixing and a new beat frequency will be the result. I'll provide a
simplified example. If you pour 2 separate paint colors together, they will not
spontaneously mix to form a blended color. However, if you add a 3rd
physical mixing component (ie a "mixing stick") and agitate the separate
colors, they will blend to form a whole new color. It is a dynamic process that
requires some external energy catalyst to stimulate a reaction to take place.

A photon will not constructively or destructively interfere with itself or other
photons unless some external "calatlytic reaction" has occured to alter the
inherent phase and timing relationships that normally exist in the photon(s).
This is the signal mixing point where the reaction takes place and is detected.

IMO, this point of signal mixing is the back exit wall of the DSE, and the mixed
interfered signals radiate outward from that location and are phase detected at the
screen.

Regards,
LL

This post has been edited by Laserlight on Feb 18 2007, 08:56 PM

Zeph & LL,

I have to go; I hope not too many pages will be here when I can return this evening, I have comments for both of you.

Have fun!


T.Roc

At the first glance, the quantum mechanic effects are supposed to be working even for the particles, which doesn't interact with the photons at all (for example the so called neutrino oscillations are explained by qaantum mechanic phenomena) - so you should omit the photon concept from you explanation of quantum mechanic at all.

Hey Zephirr and good Elf and.......LL... and......(h e lp)

I find your way of looking at photons very simmilar to GoodElf.
You both want to treat them as waves ok ok, foam then ;).
Sorry sloppy writing here, i meant strings not waves

But to my eye they seem alike

a string become foamy and then subverts itself into a wave???

And yes, when i jumped to this page i didn't realise how long this desscussion had been going on. Sorry about that. Still if you have been privately trying to create some new theory this long, you should be able to get a ' private room' kind of. Or would that be to egleterian? And GoodElf, you're good ;)

This post has been edited by yor_on on Feb 18 2007, 09:30 PM

The quantum foam is in fact the quite normal foam, with the exception, it's not formed by the soap water, of course. But the soap foam is the special case of Aether foam. By such way, this foam is not the model of some abstract 'virtual' particle-antiparticle pairs, but these pairs are model of Aether foam, instead.

This post has been edited by Zephir on Feb 18 2007, 09:24 PM

You can say the motion and momentum of the pairs produce the foam, because from there you can introduce concepts such as polarization, charge, spin, etc...

But the pairs remain more fundamental than the foam.

Hi Zephir,

First, thank you for joining and participating in the conversation at hand.

You have referred to photons as particles, a concept with which I totally disagree.
A photon wavelet is an EM energy pulse released from an atom. It has finite
energy and pulse width. A photon (wave) is a composite energy dislocation
that propagates as an energy pulse thru a medium and is made up of all of the
individual energy components that were displaced at the same time. Think of
a firecracker that explodes, there are thousands of grains of gunpowder that all
release their energy nearly simultaneously. The energy that they release is
propagated as an expanding energy wave pulse thru the medium of air. Actually
there are 2 separate pulses, a light pulse and a sound pulse. Each propagates
as an individual expanding wave pulse. Each pulse follows the inverse square law,
and each expands as a cohesive wave front from the source. My point being that
each grain of gunpowder released a very small amount of discrete energy that
when combined with all of the rest of the grains yielded a high intensity
energy wave front made up of the individual pulses with nearly simultaneous
timing, but with combined energy. If you look at a sample of the wave pulse on an
oscilloscope you see one pulse wave of finite time duration and at some amplitude.
The wave amplitude is proportional to the total combined micro explosions of
the individual grains that form the total energy of the event.

A photon is an energy wave event that can displace matter by adding kinetic
energy to the potential energy stored in matter.

Other opinions welcomed,
LL

This post has been edited by Laserlight on Feb 18 2007, 10:04 PM