A Possible God..., Gods from Different Perspectives

Hi 555Joshua,

Sometimes one simple statement can make me want to write a book, especially when I have an unexpected day off...

Agreed. It comes down to what 'taking care of sheep' really means. My apologies, but this will be a long post. Don't read it, or respond to it, if you don't want to; I'm really OK with that.

From John 9:27-30 :
My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me.
and I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish,neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
My father, which gave them me, is greater than all, and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
I and my Father are one."

This statement is very direct. It establishes that Jesus the Christ and the Creator are one: and His - their - sheep are also one. That is the meaning of the Atonement, or At - One - Ment. The Atonement, or alignment with the Mind of Creator, is itself the protection, since there is no power that can assail or threaten it. Can the body be attacked? Of course. Jesus' body was hideously attacked, and He forgave every one of his attackers, even His executioners. He warned his disciples that their bodies may also be attacked, but did not protect their bodies 'from afar'.

If this is then seemingly contradictory, then there is more information to be known. We are missing some crucial points. Jesus' miracles are an example of the superceding of laws of life and process as we understand it. He said we could do them, and even greater. He said He was the Son of God. He called us His brothers. So what then are we? He said His strength is ours for the asking. He said we begin to ask by repenting. Direct translation of the term 'repent': a wilful and conscious changing of one's point of view. If we begin to connect the dots, what do they begin to reveal?

It would seem, from the passages in the New Testament, that God and Jesus have a much more lofty opinion of us than Christians who preach daily that we are 'unworthy' of the very things Jesus says we must receive to evolve to Christ-Mindedness. I was taught in Catholic school that I was little more than a dark blot on His pure white perfection. How arrogant to degrade the creations of God. And we see humility as prostrating ourselves on the ground before God loudly proclaiming our unworthiness, as if to appease a mighty, hardhanded king.

We need to connect the dots. We need to realize that what was created cannot be destroyed because God's Will cannot be overcome. If we think it has we are not seeing the whole picture. The Bible must not be viewed as a collection of silly controversial tales that are the commonly accepted basis for the story of us. No wonder there are atheists; we are asked to believe fairy tales of Omnipotent mayhem as the basis for our reality. And the people who swallow all this KNOW none of it is logical, and they sacrifice common sense for silliness not worthy of a Creator, in the name of 'faith'.

We need to see the Bible, the Torah, the Caballah, the Koran, the Baghavad-Gita as indicators for a state of reality far beyond our minds' breadth, not as the story of reality itself. Through the correct applications of these works can we begin to discover the knowledge that brings clarity to the confusion, the evil, the madness that makes our world anything but the perfect creation of God in Genesis 1:1 to 2:1.

Where is that world? On a brane of the 11-D lattice of our universe? Not in this universe? This beautiful little planet is our perceptual home, but is not the focal point of all reality. We are babies taking baby steps, and we had better lose our arrogance and simply admit this, mitigate our pseudo-certainty, discover, learn, and let our conscience be our guide in our dealings with our fellows. Science and Spirit seem mutually exclusive, but the synergy of their unity in our minds will provide the correct path to an axiom of everything, and the answer to the directive "Know thyself".

peace,jb

You made me think this post was going to be long.

He forgave his attackers, not his sister's. Sure, he's the one to go to for forgiveness, but he won't forgive you if you don't ask for it. God never forgives unless you ask. Did this man ask you for forgiveness? In which case, is it fair to your sister to do so before she does?

Frankly, I think it's illogical for someone to watch their family be destroyed and do nothing. How Jesus protects is different from combating criminals. He protects us spiritually.

A thought of the dog:
My owners are soo wonderfully nice to me. They always give me things to eat, they play with me, they pet me, they give me a warm home, they give me safety, and all this without conditions... They are like God.

A thought of the cat:
My owners are soo wonderfully nice to me. They always give me things to eat, they play with me, they pet me, they give me a warm home, they give me safety, and all this without conditions... Maybe... I am God.

Aristoteles said similarly: God for humen is an illustrating of the most wonderful, of the perfection of everything. He is the most gracious, most intelligent, most beautiful...

So, to my mind, I assume that God is an illustrating of the most wonderful. Then I think that our pictures of God differs from the maturity and the ideology of us. So maybe we can only speak about your God, the God of this specific society, or my God.

edit:

However also the bible says that God won't help anybody. And also Aristoteles says that God won't appear on this earth. According to Aristoteles, the evident feature of living things is the spirit. And humans have the best spirit among creatures. And they are the most successful.
God loves the ration of humen. Because one loves that in other guys what one also has, it means that God would consist of pure spirit. That means he would know all wisdoms, but he can only look, and love.

That's the definition of God of the western guys.

But understand. I am not an European, nor American, I don't have any God. But if I think in the logic of Aristoteles, my God could be the picture of a normal man, living a normal life, and to know many many skills, and to be average in them.

I hope someone could understand these stupid thoughts

This post has been edited by admiral on Jun 21 2006, 11:30 AM

Aristotel was a quack.

Hi 555Joshua,

No Joshua, Jesus said to forgive your enemies. And said it more than once. My sister's enemy in that instance was also mine because she was my sister. Forgiveness is not just of God. The whole point is that we are being taught how to be 'God-like' so we can understand WHY forgiveness is essential. Never has Jesus said that you should not forgive. Never. Look at the Lord's Prayer, the short sweet lexicon of His teachings. We are forgiven BY forgiving. Read it! If you can read that and still look for arguments not to forgive, then you are putting your own opinions above God's. That's on you. Yes it's true that you can't be forgiven until you ask for it, because by asking you are accepting it. God never says no to one asking for it. Therefore you are in a state of constant forgiveness-readiness that becomes real the moment you ask for it. Joshua if you really do believe that God has bidden you to be selective with your forgiveness and that God has said it is right and proper to forgive some and condemn others based on your own consideration there is nothing more I can say or quote for you to hold your views up to secondary consideration. It's there to see clear as day. People can invoke religion to satisfy whatever agenda they have. That's why mafia assassins can perpetrate their crime and go 'confess' it that Sunday and feel exonerated, so that the 'sins' don't pile up and they have a 'clean slate' for their next killing. What a blasphemy! The real issue there is self-integrity or self-deception. If you are using selectivity with Biblical concepts to support condemnation of those you believe are not worthy of forgiveness, when you already know the 'Lord's Prayer', are you not being your own God? It's better not to have a God then, than to ascribe your own views to one.
If there is one person in your life that you truly despise, and there has been too much meanness from that person for you to currently forgive, then you will mold philosophy to fit your state of mind towards that person, and therefore to all like them. That's totally understandable; I know, I was there And how. Say no more. But I don't feel and think at all like I used to. Please accept that possibility for yourself. You must believe this - that how you feel outwardly will reflect back to how you feel inwardly. You're only seventeen, be thankful there is much more experience and learning ahead of you. I know I got personal here; if you are furious with that you can pummel me, but I said what I said.
peace,jb

*p.s. like to remind from time to time that when we are debating in a purely religious vein I do so while actually being officially agnostic, and all things of a purely religious nature are imho, and I am atheist to the god of the OT post Gen 2:3.
Insomuch as the definition of 'agnostic' means that ultimate knowledge is forever unknowable, I am not. As it means 'unknowable because of human limitation', I am. Which means we have a lot to find out, and not what we generally expect it to be.

He said forgive YOUR enimies, not your sister's enimies. The way I feel, my sister's enimies our hers and are hers to forgive. Sure they are in the same catigory as my enimies as far as I'm concerned, but I still feel it's my sister's job to forgive him and it's my job to make sure it doesn't happen to her again.

Hi 555Joshua,

Well don't you think we about milked this for all it's worth? We know each other's views, we are comfortable with our own, neither of us intends to change our course for the time being, and there more subjects and threads to ponder. IMO you're a real good guy and your siblings should be proud and happy to have a brother like you. Enjoy your summer and life in general, and I'm sure we'll be discussing other subjects/opinions to come. Peace!
jb

p.s. I don't have to protect my sis anymore - she could kick MY a$$!! And me, who doesnn't even like touching guns, can target as accurately as her, and it pisses her off!!

To the two of you out there::

Interesting points. Love it. It's really hard to forgive but you should. Well, though sometimes, you shouldn't because that teaches other people some lesson. And you really have to punish them...

Whatver the matters are, what's important is that jb's sister is doing very good and they're all living a nice and fruitful life.

httlg you are ever the summery smile here, if I were Native American I would name you Field of Bright Flowers! jb

' With a name like 'howtothinklikegod' it seems doubtfull that you are 'Christian',
rather it seems that you are aetheist,or something else,,pretending to be Christian! What gives you away is a profound lack of "respect".

This is just analytical reasoning.

On the one hand you mention some sort of belief in a greater power,,
On the other hand your handle shows that you believe that you are capable
of being equal to God.

If you are equal to God,,the God of the universe,,then you must be capable
of changing reality.

It is all fluff and stuff on your part.

I cannot forgive in spite of myself. I cannot forget in spite of myself. So I don't. If I feel like doing it I do.

Like UFOs?

With a name like overlookedinfo you'd think you'd only post info that had been overlooked. But you don't. It also makes you look like you see what others don't, that you are smarter than everyone else. Thus making you cocky and arrogant.

She's just a kid. Have you nothing better to do than scrutinize?

You know, I saw one once. And with 7 other people. In broad daylight. 1974. It did not belong to anyone on earth. It was very high, and not small in size for it's height. But the 'probing' thing is sheer lunacy. Never believed that for a second. There are many people out there craving particular attention and they don't have to seem weird, although many of the 'victims' certainly DO seem to be...

Can't say I was as lucky. I wouldn't mind seeing a UFO. I'd also like them to take me to their planet. That would be cool.

Hi admiral,

A short answer for now. There is the Bible. The Cabballa. The Koran. The Bhagavad-Gita. The Torah. And there's more. Each one has a God and a Messiah. Each one is different. Each has different stories. How can they all be true?

Do they even need to be?
If all the books of God are brought together and that which is common to all is listed, what will we find? Try it. See what you find.

The greatest teacher you may learn from is the one who waits in the void. We have far too many thoughts, even in our sleep, to easily reach that place.

A Zen gem:
Thirty spokes converge on the hub of a wheel,
But the use of the cart depends on the part of the hub that is void.
Put doors and windows in the house as you build,
But the use of the house depends on the part of the house that is void.
With high walls all around a clay bowl is molded,
But the use of the bowl depends on the part of the bowl that is void.
So avantage is had from what is there,
But usefullness arises from what is not.
peace,jb

,,,and that, dear friend, was the singular reason for trying that thread. I'd risk death by alien ray gun in a New York minute if it enabled a chance to get on that thing and...GO!

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I have learned many things over the years of my life. Lessons learned
more often than not in the classroom of life, rather than in the quiet
of the study.

God is a God of consistency. You may question His motives, but you
cannot deny His consistency. There are spiritual laws that God has
instituted that even govern His actions. Spiritual laws He is above
keeping, but chooses to honor in order to preserve his credibility.
Consistent beings are more credible than inconsistent beings. We know
the expected consequence of an action when we are confronted with a
consistent being.

Too often in my youth I found myself questioning a God that would stand
back and let some terrible thing happen. But, now I more fully understand
Gods Spiritual Law. For every action or every decision not to act there
are consequences. Sometimes good. Sometimes bad. This is all part of
Free Will. Too many times have I blamed God for allowing something to
happen, rather than to blame the one(Satan) for promoting the action
that resulted in a tragic consequence. The second spiritual law that I have
come to understand is that for every positive there is an opposite negative.
God is love. Satan is evil. This is an inescapable law. If we agree that love
exists, then it is unavoidable that evil also exists.

As a parent and now as a grandparent, it is easier for me to see the
wisdom of being consistent. Some of my children could learn life lessons
through instruction. Tell them that the pan on the stove is hot, and
they accepted the instruction (action) and did not touch it (good
consequence). But, another child would for some reason, reach out
to find out for themselves(action), and burn their fingers (consequence).

Removing from the Bible, violent consequences, out of the context of
the whole (Bible history), and using those excerpts to "prove" God
is a violent God, thus not worthy to be God is missing the point
of His Fatherhood. God has allowed us free will. Making our own choices
and consistently experiencing the consequences, makes the human species
stronger and healthier over time. We are aimed towards perfection.

We evolve, in a sense, experiencing the consequences of mistakes, and
learning, over time, to be obedient to His perfect will. Father knows
best. The Evil One never seems to be held accountable in so many peoples
eyes. Do we give in to temptation, and suffer the consequences of our
actions? Of course we do. So, who is more responsible? Satan, for
tempting us to make poor choices? Or God, for being consistent and
allowing those consequences to fall upon our shoulders?
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