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> Enough! Science is not religion!, DONT TELL ME THAT SCIENCE IS A RELIGION!
Common Sense
Posted: Mar 21 2006, 07:35 PM


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QUOTE (swimmer @ Mar 18 2006, 10:11 PM)
So why are there so many "miracles" in the bible?

Was Jesus showing off? After each "miracle" did he say to himself "dammit I've gone and undermined their faith again - silly me!!"

huh.gif

I think Jefferson said it best...

"In extracting the pure principles which he taught, we should have to strip off the artificial vestments in which they have been muffled by priests, who have travestied them into various forms, as instruments of riches and power to themselves. We must dismiss the Platonists and Plotinists, the Stagyrites and Gamalielites, the Eclectics, the Gnostics and Scholastics, their essences and emanations, their logos and demiurgos, aeons and daemons, male and female, with a long train of … or, shall I say at once, of nonsense. We must reduce our volume to the simple evangelists, select, even from them, the very words only of Jesus, paring off the amphibologisms into which they have been led, by forgetting often, or not understanding, what had fallen from him, by giving their own misconceptions as his dicta, and expressing unintelligibly for others what they had not understood themselves. There will be found remaining the most sublime and benevolent code of morals which has ever been offered to man. I have performed this operation for my own use, by cutting verse by verse out of the printed book, and arranging the matter which is evidently his, and which is as easily distinguishable as diamonds in a dunghill." - Jefferson's letter to John Adams dated 13 October, 1813:

The Life and Morals of Jesus of Nazareth

As an 'aside', seeing how Jefferson edited the ten commandments down to two, I don't see how religious fundies can suggest the ten commandments should be in a government bulding. He called the bible a "Dunghill". blink.gif


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steve52
Posted: Mar 22 2006, 05:20 AM


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believe in the truth
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Zarabtul
Posted: Mar 22 2006, 08:59 AM


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To the first poster May God show you a sign that through him all things can be accomplished.


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steve52
Posted: Mar 22 2006, 01:27 PM


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QUOTE
To the first poster May God show you a sign that through him all things can be accomplished.


Luke 11:29 "And when the people were gathered thick together, he began to say, This is an evil generation: they seek a sign; and there shall no sign be given it, but the sign of Jonas the prophet".
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howtothinklikegod
Posted: Mar 22 2006, 01:56 PM


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Yeah.

SCIENCE IS A RELIGION. Because many people believe in it. And that makes it a system of beliefs, which is definitely the meaning of religion. Ten years from now, there will be science churches and scientific priests. They will rule the world. They will teach the ultimate truth to the innocents. And those innocents will believe. And they will later replace those scientists and make a more advanced and precise system of beliefs. And they will give birth to another form of religion. And Christianity will evaporate. And everybody will be god. And no one will ever remember that there is a Supreme Being, a friend, a father, and most of all, a brother, who created everything.

And yes, people will definitely like the modern system. I couldn't blame them. What more could they ask? Everything is being fed. There are proofs, evidences, scientific explanations..... there is absolutely NO REASON to doubt science. And if that's the beauty of it, i'd rather resort to the older system. Though there are doubts, regrets, unexplained, uncertainties......WHO THE HELL CARES ABOUT BEING PRECISE?? AND FOR GOD'S SAKE, WHO ARE WE TO BE SO WISE THAT WE ARE NOW ABLE TO KNOW GOD, TO EXPLAIN HIS EXISTENCE BY NUMBERS AND TERMS THAT WE CREATED??!!!!

Yeah.

SCIENCE IS A RELIGION.

But does it have a god??
Where??


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Common Sense
Posted: Mar 22 2006, 03:09 PM


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QUOTE (howtothinklikegod @ Mar 22 2006, 01:56 PM)
Yeah.

SCIENCE IS A RELIGION. Because many people believe in it. And that makes it a system of beliefs, which is definitely the meaning of religion. Ten years from now, there will be science churches and scientific priests. They will rule the world. They will teach the ultimate truth to the innocents. And those innocents will believe. And they will later replace those scientists and make a more advanced and precise system of beliefs. And they will give birth to another form of religion. And Christianity will evaporate. And everybody will be god. And no one will ever remember that there is a Supreme Being, a friend, a father, and most of all, a brother, who created everything.

And yes, people will definitely like the modern system. I couldn't blame them. What more could they ask? Everything is being fed. There are proofs, evidences, scientific explanations..... there is absolutely NO REASON to doubt science. And if that's the beauty of it, i'd rather resort to the older system. Though there are doubts, regrets, unexplained, uncertainties......WHO THE HELL CARES ABOUT BEING PRECISE?? AND FOR GOD'S SAKE, WHO ARE WE TO BE SO WISE THAT WE ARE NOW ABLE TO KNOW GOD, TO EXPLAIN HIS EXISTENCE BY NUMBERS AND TERMS THAT WE CREATED??!!!!

Yeah.

SCIENCE IS A RELIGION.

But does it have a god??
Where??

No, science is not a religion, because if a scientist believes in his work while tests prove hes wrong then he isn't being scientific. Science is about proving things to others. It has no faith in anything or anybody. If it did you wouldn't have to peer review. Religion is opposite.


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Throughout history, [reason] has been mans only true savior. - Common Sense (TM)

"Now there's a man with an open mind - you can feel the breeze from here!" - Groucho Marx

http://www.debunking911.com
http://www.911myths.com
http://www.jod911.com

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Steveo
Posted: Mar 22 2006, 05:12 PM


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QUOTE
Yeah.

SCIENCE IS A RELIGION. Because many people believe in it. And that makes it a system of beliefs, which is definitely the meaning of religion. Ten years from now, there will be science churches and scientific priests. They will rule the world. They will teach the ultimate truth to the innocents. And those innocents will believe. And they will later replace those scientists and make a more advanced and precise system of beliefs. And they will give birth to another form of religion. And Christianity will evaporate. And everybody will be god. And no one will ever remember that there is a Supreme Being, a friend, a father, and most of all, a brother, who created everything.

And yes, people will definitely like the modern system. I couldn't blame them. What more could they ask? Everything is being fed. There are proofs, evidences, scientific explanations..... there is absolutely NO REASON to doubt science. And if that's the beauty of it, i'd rather resort to the older system. Though there are doubts, regrets, unexplained, uncertainties......WHO THE HELL CARES ABOUT BEING PRECISE?? AND FOR GOD'S SAKE, WHO ARE WE TO BE SO WISE THAT WE ARE NOW ABLE TO KNOW GOD, TO EXPLAIN HIS EXISTENCE BY NUMBERS AND TERMS THAT WE CREATED??!!!!

Yeah.

SCIENCE IS A RELIGION.

But does it have a god??
Where??


In its belief system science is a polar opposite to religion. It requires repeatable evidence, not faith. It requires skeptism, not faith. In science, you see a new result, and your supposed to be skeptical. It is the job of the author of the new result to logically show you how he got his result, and if its an experiment, give you the 'instructions' to do the experiment again yourself to repeat the results. If you can not do this as a scientist, you are probably not doing good science. Or your a terrible communicator....one, the other or both. But science is not a religion. It is a method used to systematically improve human knowledge of the universe. Practice shows that the scientific method is good at improving knowledge. I believe it is the best method to do so, however that is where the faith comes in. There is no faith in the actual method.


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"Physics is like sex: sure, it may give some practical results, but that's not why we do it."
"Physics is to math what sex is to masturbation."
"But I don't have to know an answer. I don't feel frightened by not knowing things, by being lost in the mysterious universe without having any purpose—which is the way it really is, as far as I can tell, possibly. It doesn't frighten me." - Richard Feynman
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steve52
Posted: Mar 22 2006, 05:56 PM


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QUOTE
howtothinklikegod

Yeah.

SCIENCE IS A RELIGION. Because many people believe in it. And that makes it a system of beliefs, which is definitely the meaning of religion.


CORRECT!!!

And 500 years or so ago, when the leading scientists believed that blood letting, (cutting people's wrists and hanging them upside down for a few days) would cure all their diseases they considered that to be science and not a religion.

A couple hundred years ago the leading scientists felt it was impossible to fly in an airplane, as their scientific belief said it defied the laws of physics and gravity.

Never the less it was only their belief, and had little to do with the truth.

Therefore, if truth is the number one priority in searching for knowledge and science is put in it's proper place, IE; a box of tools, a bag of tricks, an agreed upon set of measurements and formulas, and if people put truth first, and not the current, politically correct standard of beliefs, then maybe the same people will realize that they shouldn't worship science like a religion, but rather utilize whatever tools may be handy.

If the bible is not the truth then you shouldn't believe it, but when God opens your eyes and you discover it is true, then that you need to ask yourself the question, (Should you believe in truth or in lies)?

John 8:32 "And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free".

The problem isn't so much the sciences or necessarily some of the tools found in the current set of scientific beliefs, but it's the failure to recognize the fact that science is not God, and is not always true, but is simply a standard of beliefs, like a religion.

And sometimes those beliefs may be correct, such as 2 + 2 = 4, and the laws of gravity, and the laws of cause and effect, but all too often, (because human beings) all too often MANIPULATE scientific formulas for political purposes and otherwise, the current sciences can be corrupted, just as they have been for eons of time.

Therefore, TRUTH should be prioritized over and above the religion of science, so that whatever useful tools may be found in the sciences can be utilized for the purpose of deriving at the truth.

Remember "Figures don't lie, but liars can figure"

And regarding the one and only true God, who created all things, well FEAR NOT!

Isaiah 43:13 "Yea, before the day was I am he; and there is none that can deliver out of my hand: I will work, and who shall let it"?


And when someone with a PhD. tries to impress you with their vast amounts of knowledge try to remember this...

1Corinthians 3:19 "For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, He taketh the wise in their own craftiness".

And remember, the good Lord is waking people up from their deep sleep by helping some of the stars shine

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El_Machinae
Posted: Mar 22 2006, 06:15 PM


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Science is not connected to a religion. Your belief in a religion will not change any science you do (unless it is dishonest). In addition, science makes no claim on morals or the afterlife.


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Steveo
Posted: Mar 22 2006, 06:15 PM


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Anyone who says science is a religion is just plain wrong, and knows nothing about science. Some sciences become dogmatic, and some scientists have to much faith in their own theories, or the theories of someone like Einstein, however this does not speak for science as a whole.

I think how science relates to us can be best summed up with:

"Science is what we have learned about how to keep from fooling ourselves." - Richard Feynman

"Science is a way of thinking, much more than it is a body of facts." - Carl Sagan

Is another good one. Science has been wrong before, and will be wrong probably many many times more than its right. However, in the long run science learns more, and gets closer to 'truth'. Whatever that is.

QUOTE
A couple hundred years ago the leading scientists felt it was impossible to fly in an airplane, as their scientific belief said it defied the laws of physics and gravity.

Never the less it was only their belief, and had little to do with the truth.


It actually was their logic based on what they knew about nature at the time. As science learned more, it was realized that we could fly an airplane.

Please explain to me what you mean by truth. Science, in reality says nothing about what truth is, only what truth is not! Science is a process of elimination. The longer an idea can survive without being eliminated by experiment the more valid it is. It still could fail tomorrow in theory. In reality, most of the well known laws won't fail tomorrow (maybe this is because we know where many of their flaws are already).
If by truth you are talking about god, science will never, and probably can never find truth about god. Science is seperate from god. Its not against god, or for god, its just different, and avoids (or should) mixing god in with natural inquiry.


--------------------
"Physics is like sex: sure, it may give some practical results, but that's not why we do it."
"Physics is to math what sex is to masturbation."
"But I don't have to know an answer. I don't feel frightened by not knowing things, by being lost in the mysterious universe without having any purpose—which is the way it really is, as far as I can tell, possibly. It doesn't frighten me." - Richard Feynman
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lostinjersey
Posted: Mar 22 2006, 07:00 PM


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science is not religion.
religion is a set of ideas and beliefs that rely on faith.
science is a set of ideas that rely on emperical data, repeated experimentation and observation, and can be proven or disproven. It requires no faith just some intelligence.


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El_Machinae
Posted: Mar 22 2006, 08:59 PM


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Science requires a great deal of faith, people just don't see it. For one, science states that things are knowable (how do you know?). Science also states that your senses report the truth (how do you know?).

I've seen enough schizophrenics to know that the truth, and what you believe to be true, are not the same thing. Just because you believe that a thermometer reports the temperature, doesn't mean it actually does. You (and I) just believe that it does.


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Common Sense
Posted: Mar 22 2006, 09:53 PM


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QUOTE
For one, science states that things are knowable (how do you know?).


This is a typical straw man. Science does not state that everything is knowable. It only attempts to explain the known. Only the religious makes this claim. They KNOW God created all. (How do you know?)

QUOTE
Science also states that your senses report the truth (how do you know?).


Another straw man. Science does not state that your senses know the truth. Only that we can come closer to the truth by conclusions drawn by examining, and most importantly, testing evidence. Again, the religious are the only ones thinking they know the truth through their senses. (How do you know?)

QUOTE
Just because you believe that a thermometer reports the temperature, doesn't mean it actually does.


A thermometer may be an instrument of science but it is not science. Temperature is a man made measurement of heat. 70 degrees F is what man agreed it is. The instrument can be wrong and proven to be so. A good scientist will point out a flawed experiment based on a faulty thermometer and the paper/hypothesis/theory will change accordingly. Religion prides itself on not changing with new evidence.

Your religious thermometer is your feelings. There is no way to test it for accuracy. Again, the analogy is flawed. Science is most certainly not religion.


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Throughout history, [reason] has been mans only true savior. - Common Sense (TM)

"Now there's a man with an open mind - you can feel the breeze from here!" - Groucho Marx

http://www.debunking911.com
http://www.911myths.com
http://www.jod911.com

SCHOLARGATE IS COMING.....
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DuzmA
Posted: Mar 22 2006, 10:09 PM


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4. A cause, principle, or activity pursued with zeal or conscientious devotion. Definition provided by The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition.

Science is religion by definition.


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"Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge: it is those who know little, and not those who know much, who so positively assert that this or that problem will never be solved by science.” - Charles Darwin.

"Today the theory of evolution is about as much open to doubt as the theory that the earth goes round the sun." - Richard Dawkins.

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Common Sense
Posted: Mar 22 2006, 10:20 PM


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QUOTE (DuzmA @ Mar 22 2006, 10:09 PM)
4. A cause, principle, or activity pursued with zeal or conscientious devotion. Definition provided by The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition.

Science is religion by definition.

That is the definition of religion. Not science. By definition science is not religion...

1. The observation, identification, description, experimental investigation, and theoretical explanation of phenomena.
2. Such activities restricted to explaining a limitied class of natural phenomena.
3. Such activities applied to an object of inquiry or study.
4. Knowledge, especially that gained through experience.

Source: The American Heritage® Stedman's Medical Dictionary

: knowledge or a system of knowledge covering general truths or the operation of general laws especially as obtained and tested through the scientific method and concerned with the physical world and its phenomena

Source: Merriam-Webster's Medical Dictionary, © 2002 Merriam-Webster, Inc.



--------------------
Throughout history, [reason] has been mans only true savior. - Common Sense (TM)

"Now there's a man with an open mind - you can feel the breeze from here!" - Groucho Marx

http://www.debunking911.com
http://www.911myths.com
http://www.jod911.com

SCHOLARGATE IS COMING.....
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