Scientific Forums


Pages: (2) [1] 2   ( Go to first unread post )

Add reply · Start new topic · Start new poll


> How did it all start?
EAX
Posted: Feb 26 2006, 01:59 PM


Newbie
*

Group: Members
Posts: 3
Joined: 26-February 06

Positive Feedback: 0%
Feedback Score: 0


This must be the #1 question. But which is the leading theory of how the universe began? I'm talking about "what created the singularity which exploded (big bang). Yes the leading theory on how the universe works describes vibrating strings. But what exactly do these unstable threads or strings actually represent? To bloviate a little: It's hard to phantom the universe because of its complex surreal abstraction and phenomenology. Since something can't come from absolute nothing, and I'm will to call p-branes and super-strings as 'something' because they are acting, isn't physics in the wrong direction when it tries to understand the fundamentals? Maybe the universe is not so big if it represents absolute nothing. Every time I try to study space-time physics I consider it hogwash as the known fundamentals are only abstractions. I feel like I’m reading fiction and everyone knows most theories are nearly impossibly to prove.

Lets try to picture absolute nothingness. Even a vacuum is something while it’s defined by the stars, right? So what in hell decided cause a disruption in nothingness? Could it be because emptiness is always being attracted to itself so it keeps convoluting (if that’s any sense)? I really think there is a simple explanation to why the universe is.. There must be one simple law that can be broken down to other laws at the macroscopic level. Just think about it, this is nothingness and we shouldn’t exist. Hell even some studies I have read about discuss some sort of superposition which stresses even more that the event never happened. According to this theory an event can occur and not at the same time..
I’m only interested because I have no beliefs anymore in god and would like some basic understanding as to why the universe is, for my own content
Top
MMC
  Posted: Feb 26 2006, 02:57 PM


Advanced Member
*****

Group: Members
Posts: 1832
Joined: 19-November 05

Positive Feedback: 35.71%
Feedback Score: -12


QUOTE

This must be the #1 question. But which is the leading theory of how the universe began? I'm talking about "what created the singularity which exploded (big bang).


What Big Bang?

...that's fairytales...

Zeno Paradoxes combined with modern scientific information provide us with a radically different viewpoint:


1. "You can never catch up." (Achilles and the tortoise)
Under special relativity, even when traviling at c, a photon will pass by at c...you can never catch it...

2. "You cannot even start." (The dichotomy paradox)
There is no such thing as a beginning nor end. Physical proof of this exists in the form of a quantum computer solving a problem without executing a program.
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/02/23/quantum_computing/
You can never start or begin anything...it is always happening (infinite).

3. "You cannot even move." (The arrow paradox)
Looking at Schrodinger's wave equation, especially the electron, shows that it is static and location is determined by energy level. Even general motion (velocity) is an expression of the energy level. Therefore, there is no need for anything to move, just change energy level and you occupy a different portion of space which provides the "illusion" of movement. Relativity is due to a multi-dimensional matrix based upon energy-levels..you cannot move.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zeno%27s_paradoxes
Top
EAX
Posted: Feb 26 2006, 03:37 PM


Newbie
*

Group: Members
Posts: 3
Joined: 26-February 06

Positive Feedback: 0%
Feedback Score: 0


That's great stuff. the dichotomy paradox was what I was thinking of, time to pull more info on this and see how unrealistic it is
Top
Zephir
Posted: Feb 26 2006, 04:03 PM


AWT founder
*****

Group: Members
Posts: 9783
Joined: 27-August 05

Positive Feedback: 48.7%
Feedback Score: -69


QUOTE (EAX @ Feb 26 2006, 04:59 PM)
This must be the #1 question. But which is the leading theory of how the universe began?

By my private Aether Wave theory the current Universe isn't very first generation of Universe, it was formed from heavily collapsed environment from the previous generation of Universe (maybe some adiabatic black hole / collapsar state, maybe the steady state universe after sufficient amount of inflations - see the animation bellow)

user posted image user posted image

It means, the Aether theory supplies a rather clear idea, how the BigBang has appeared (at least for me), but the true origin of Universe remains unknown, as it requires multidimensional inhomogeneous inertial environment, to enable the subsequent evolution by the wave equation, recursively.


--------------------
Aether in one sentence: The particles of reality are formed by observation of reality through density fluctuations of particles of reality.
Please, have look at my posts history [http://superstruny.aspweb.cz] with full-text search before asking for details. Thank you!
Top
fivedoughnut
Posted: Feb 26 2006, 04:27 PM


Member of the "forum mafia"
*****

Group: Members
Posts: 1667
Joined: 13-November 05

Positive Feedback: 57.14%
Feedback Score: 32


My view of the begining was the interaction of two high dimensional particles,
creating a mind-boggling decay we label "the universe" laugh.gif
Top
Zephir
Posted: Feb 26 2006, 04:50 PM


AWT founder
*****

Group: Members
Posts: 9783
Joined: 27-August 05

Positive Feedback: 48.7%
Feedback Score: -69


QUOTE (fivedoughnut @ Feb 26 2006, 07:27 PM)
My view of the beginning was the interaction of two high dimensional particles

Well, it was just the moment of the last inflation period - but it's possible, some low dimensional particle (neutrino) has appeared a well before such period as the high dimensional particles with compare of the primordial vacuum (so called "false vacuum"), interacting at long distances here, like electrons in current vacuum.

When the vacuum has become rather high dimensional too, the neutrinos has became low dimensional particles with compare the rest of vacuum ("tip of the iceberg" effect) with the rather subtle rest mass of neutrino as the result.

user posted image


--------------------
Aether in one sentence: The particles of reality are formed by observation of reality through density fluctuations of particles of reality.
Please, have look at my posts history [http://superstruny.aspweb.cz] with full-text search before asking for details. Thank you!
Top
Nick
Posted: Feb 26 2006, 10:01 PM


-- LIGHT FELL --
*****

Group: Members
Posts: 5292
Joined: 3-June 05

Positive Feedback: 58.82%
Feedback Score: -37


The beginning of the universe requires a Beginner; an origin an Originator.

Where is the universe?
Top
EAX
Posted: Feb 27 2006, 01:08 AM


Newbie
*

Group: Members
Posts: 3
Joined: 26-February 06

Positive Feedback: 0%
Feedback Score: 0


well then I guess there really was no beginning at all. I do believe in the big bang and big crunch and I think it's happend infinite of times. but what is actually causing it... i really don't belive we should exist at all.. some messed up physics. eh..
Top
anirudhred
Posted: Feb 27 2006, 04:17 AM


Newbie
*

Group: Members
Posts: 8
Joined: 26-February 06

Positive Feedback: 0%
Feedback Score: 0


Anirudh cool.gif

Any theory of the origin of the universe obviously points to only one direction and conclusion at the end of the day:
GOD
Top
amrit
Posted: Mar 10 2006, 02:16 PM


THE ONLY TIME EXISTS IS INNER TIME
*****

Group: Members
Posts: 2770
Joined: 17-March 05

Positive Feedback: 31.25%
Feedback Score: -201


universe is in a dynamic equilibrium, no start, no end, no god, no devil,
universe is perfect, a non created reality, eternal, see more my articles (A-Temporal Universe)
www.ejtp.com


--------------------
The universe is in a continuous change. A change n gets transformed into a change n+1, the change n+1 into a change n+2 and so on. Clocks measure a frequency, velocity and numerical order of change. Changes do not occur in time, changes occur in space only. Time is not a part of space. In the space there is no past and no future. Past and future belong to the inner time that is a result of neuronal activity of the brain.
Top
J. Wensveen
Posted: Mar 10 2006, 03:28 PM


Member
**

Group: Members
Posts: 260
Joined: 4-August 05

Positive Feedback: 100%
Feedback Score: 7


imagine a two-dimensional observer on a blank sheet of paper. Now move a sphere through the paper. The two-dimensional observer will see a point that will expand into a circle and then shrink back into a point before it disappears.

As long as the hypothetical two dimensional observer has no clue about a three dimensional world, it will never be able to determine the exact reason why that dot started, became a circle and disappeared again, and why and when.


--------------------
[FONT=Arial][SIZE=1][COLOR=red][B][U]Only Entropy requires no maintenance[/U][/B][/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]
Top
Zephir
Posted: Mar 11 2006, 12:46 AM


AWT founder
*****

Group: Members
Posts: 9783
Joined: 27-August 05

Positive Feedback: 48.7%
Feedback Score: -69


QUOTE (J. Wensveen @ Mar 10 2006, 06:28 PM)
..it will never be able to determine the exact reason why that dot started, became a circle and disappeared again, and why and when....

I understand your stance, but it's relatively mechanistic model. In the real word, the hidden dimensions are connected through vacuum energy density, they're no so hidden, as the pure geometric model supposes - they're just a "quite hidden", instead. The Universe is built up on the analogue wave spreading model, not binary or digital. As the result, each effect or law has its own limits which are given by the wave resolution.

For example, the water surface is able to transfer about 250.000x higher energy density, than the bulk underwater. As the result, the underwater sound wave effects are pretty hidden for the water surface waves - but not hidden totally and both they're remains connected together via energy density. It's a reason, we can search for gravitational waves, for example.

As an another helper view can serve the analogy, i.e. the experiment with the intersection of circle by the line in two points in 2D arrangement. It's a reason, why we are able to imagine the hidden dimensions, although we cannot directly affect/observe it. We have a water surface or condensing supercritical vapor real world analogies.


--------------------
Aether in one sentence: The particles of reality are formed by observation of reality through density fluctuations of particles of reality.
Please, have look at my posts history [http://superstruny.aspweb.cz] with full-text search before asking for details. Thank you!
Top
amrit
Posted: Mar 11 2006, 07:09 AM


THE ONLY TIME EXISTS IS INNER TIME
*****

Group: Members
Posts: 2770
Joined: 17-March 05

Positive Feedback: 31.25%
Feedback Score: -201


the obsesion of the beginning is based into not understanding of what time is


--------------------
The universe is in a continuous change. A change n gets transformed into a change n+1, the change n+1 into a change n+2 and so on. Clocks measure a frequency, velocity and numerical order of change. Changes do not occur in time, changes occur in space only. Time is not a part of space. In the space there is no past and no future. Past and future belong to the inner time that is a result of neuronal activity of the brain.
Top
Jason McNeill
Posted: Mar 21 2006, 11:03 PM


Unregistered









I always wonder why most physicists (those whose work I've read) accept the idea as given that there was some sort of cosmic nugget that sprang into existence and then banged. I understand that quantum theory posits that there are up to 120 orders of magnitude of energy below the Planck length. Since (according to Einstein) energy and matter are equivalent (e=mc^2), then all the matter that exists may have come from that reservoir beneath the Planck length. But if that's the case, then the real question we should be asking is:

Where did all the energy beneath the Planck length come from? Is it an irriducible primary that simply must be taken as a given that it always existed?

When people talk about "existence," they usually mean observable or measurable phenomena. But any energy that exists below the Planck length certainly exists and yet is not measurable. So there really is no support for the notion that existence sprang out of non-existence, which is saying that some energy or matter sprang from not even the energy reservoir below the Planck length; it came from absolutely nothing.

I'd like to know what your thoughts are on this question of the origion of all matter/energy.
Top
Zephir
Posted: Mar 22 2006, 11:12 AM


AWT founder
*****

Group: Members
Posts: 9783
Joined: 27-August 05

Positive Feedback: 48.7%
Feedback Score: -69


QUOTE (Jason McNeill @ Mar 22 2006, 02:03 AM)
Where did all the energy beneath the Planck length come from?  Is it an irreducible primary that simply must be taken as a given that it always existed?

The original energy/mass density of Universe shouldn't be supposed to be very high, if any. The mass of universe is result of stirring and waving of such thin Aether. Such energy gives the Aether inertial properties like shaken liquid full of vortex rings. As you probably know, vortex ring is formed just by the fluid, but the inner energy gives it a character of massive particle with some rest mass. As the result, such system of vortex rings (virtual particle pairs) can behave as some more dense fluid, being able to form an another vortex rings or torsion deformations of it, recursively.

user posted image user posted image

You can imagine the particles forming such continuum as the tiny multidimensional gyroscopes similar to the PowerBall toy, which can obtain it's inertia and mass just by shaking (lattice formed by gyros). Interesting enough, such model can explains the gravitational forces between such particles and energy, required to realize such system at the same time: The potential energy of gravity between such massive vortexes should correspond its kinetic energy in each moment.

QUOTE (Jason McNeill @ Mar 22 2006, 02:03 AM)
there really is no support for the notion that existence sprang out of non-existence

The insintric energy density of Aether can manifest itself by a number of ways. The most obvious example is the fact, the liquid helium doesn't freeze during cooling even at the absolute zero temperature - the helium atoms are behaving in the Aether as the particles of dust in a water, being shaken by the Brownian motion. The energy of the inner motion of water molecules can be a quite high, but due the size difference between the helium nuclei size (10 E-15 m) and Aether wave size (Planck length 10 E-35 m) it manifests by a quite subtle way. You can imagine, we are creatures living on a calm surface of the molten iron (being formed by vortexes of it, in fact). We are not able to detect the energy of the iron just using by the surface waves, which are spreading in our space (i.e. the waves of the light). It's a general insight, after all - the energy of underwater waves cannot be observed directly by the surface waves, because it changes both the space, both the time for the surface wave spreading - the underwater waves are forming just some subtle density waves form the surface wave perspective, thus generalizing the meaning of the "reality".

User posted image user posted image

It's obvious, the reality is everything, what can be observed using the energy waves, not just via light waves. For example, the gauge boson waves are able to interact with the vacuum intensively, thus having a low range action in our world.


--------------------
Aether in one sentence: The particles of reality are formed by observation of reality through density fluctuations of particles of reality.
Please, have look at my posts history [http://superstruny.aspweb.cz] with full-text search before asking for details. Thank you!
Top

Topic Options Pages: (2) [1] 2 

Add reply · Start new topic · Start new poll


 

Terms of use