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> Superluminal Gravitation, Gravity is faster than light.
amrit
Posted: Nov 3 2006, 08:35 PM


THE ONLY TIME EXISTS IS INNER TIME
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gravity does not move at all
gravity is carried by the curvature-density of space
is the result of the quantum structure of the space


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The universe is in a continuous change. A change n gets transformed into a change n+1, the change n+1 into a change n+2 and so on. Clocks measure a frequency, velocity and numerical order of change. Changes do not occur in time, changes occur in space only. Time is not a part of space. In the space there is no past and no future. Past and future belong to the inner time that is a result of neuronal activity of the brain.
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William D. Walker
Posted: Nov 6 2006, 02:37 PM


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When a mass is oscillated, it generates 3 gravitational field components, both longitudinal and transverse, similar to the fields generated by an electric quadrapole. The field components propagate (phase speed) superluminally when they are created and reduce to the speed of light as they propagate into the farfield (about one wavelength from the source). If a mass is modulated with information then the information-modulated gravitational fields will propagate according the group speed, which propagates similarly to the phase speed. But, because it takes time to decode a signal, depending on the method of demodulation, the information speed may be less than the speed of light. For more information refer to the following paper in PDF format.

http://xxx.lanl.gov/abs/physics/0603240

Since most astronomical gravitational systems move very slowly, this causes the observed gravitational effects to be in the nearfield. Modern astronomical observations show that the speed of gravitational interaction is at least 300 or more times the speed of light. For more information refer to the following paper.

http://metaresearch.org/cosmology/speed_of_gravity.asp







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mott.carl
Posted: Nov 6 2006, 03:04 PM


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superluminal gravitation must be consequence of the extended relativity theory,where the tachions and antitachions does part of space-time different
of the subluminal,because place a third postulate,that is the fact of that antiparticles are particles that run backward in time followings the stuckelberg-feynman dyagram.then there are tachiions that curve the space-time,twisting the space-time creating a rotational vortices that imply in the existence of tachions that actue in regions in the the tachions run through of pathways that are topology deformations for where travel the gravitational waves that are tachions-anti- tachions that quantic laces that are associated to curvatures of space-time,that are connected at gravity.the gravitons are decayments of -antitachions tachions.then the tachions accelerate emitting energy,and appear travel backward
in time,without violate causality.why the tachions travel of c until the infinite.
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Robert Neil Boyd
Posted: Nov 10 2006, 02:47 PM


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In the late 1700's La Sage proposed an explanation for Newton's gravity. It took the form of a proof that an inverse square attractive force is generated by two bodies shadowing each other from an all-pervasive background of moving microscopic bodies, which were constantly impacting on the larger bodies. LaSage showed that as these smaller bodies become arbitrarily small and as the size of the shadow becomes smaller, relative to the separation of the bodies, an inverse square relation is produced. This background of small impacting bodies constitutes an aether. From this basis, La Sage produced a mechanism similar to General Relativity for Newtonian gravity. La Sage then developed a differential form of Special Relativity for accelerating frames, preceding Einstein's Relativity. Later, Einstein produced the “Equivalence Theorem” whereby gravity was proposed to be equivalent to an accelerating frame of reference (matter affecting the hypothetical "space-time"). La Sage would have answered to the expressions of Einstein, that gravitation alters the path of photons in the same manner as it acts on all other entities. The three spatial dimensions and the variable of time mean that the curved photon trajectories existing in this early differential form of general relativity (a kind of Galilean relativity) produce the same effects currently attributed to "curved space-time". La Sage's model generates the same results as General Relativity without resorting to any new spatial dimensions, using only 3-D geometry, the conservation of momentum, and a differential form of general relativity.[Whittaker]

About 1853, the Marquis de LaPlace developed a model for gravitation which was an improvement and extension of the previous work done by La Sage. In this model, gravitation is caused by the pressure of a ubiquitous gas composed of “infinitesimal particles”, each of which has an intrinsic velocity of millions of times the speed of light. This model for gravitation produces all the results of Relativity theory, while describing the actual cause of gravitation without resorting to any more than 3 Euclidean dimensions, nor requiring the mathematical fabrication of a “metric”. [Whittaker] (Relativity theory only describes what happens as a result of gravitation; that is to say, what gravity does. Relativity theory does not tell us what causes gravitation, nor what gravity actually is.) Inertia in the LaPlacian system is explained as the resistance to motion caused by the inflowing fluidic media, where Newton's Third Law is invoked, resulting in a direct relation between gravitation and inertia. The tendency of an object to remain in motion is due to the equilibrium of the pressure of the media on the already moving object, arising as it does, from all directions, similar to a “heat bath”.

Einstein identified the existence of gravity with the inertial motion of accelerating bodies, whereas contemporary physicists identify the existence of gravity with space-time curvature. This interpretation of gravity as a local curvature in space-time is an interpretation Einstein did not agree with. When we examine Einstein's expressions regarding curved space-time, we are reminded that Einstein held the view that any space-time curvature would only occur at cosmic scales, not locally. Many have been led to believe that the 1935 experiments involving observations of a star during a total eclipse, which should have been obscured by the mass of the sun, represent evidence of a local space-time curvature (gravity well) in the vicinity of the sun. In fact, exactly the same results will be incurred if we place a density gradient of one of Mendeleev's Zero Group gases around the sun, which density increases as we approach the stellar body. The altered path of light which is observed in these circumstances, is then simply due to refraction, the change in the refractive index of space in the vicinity of the sun, due to the presence of a density gradient of gases, which causes any light which enters into the region of the density gradient to be bent away from its normal path, in the manner of an optical lens.

Because gravitation is the result of the constant inflowing of (subquantum) gases we are calling an aether, it seems that gravitation can be temporarily locally neutralized by applications of very fast, positive-going electrostatic field discharges, exceeding 500,000 statvolts, to the object. This can happen because such discharges result in out-bound aether fluxes which intersect with, and effectively block, the incoming gravitational aether stream, because the local aether pressure, out-bound, is stronger than the local gravitational aether pressure, which is in-bound. This was first demonstrated by Piggot in France in July 1920. Piggot was able to suspend 1/2 inch diameter solid silver balls, and other materials, in the space between an electrostatically charged sphere, and a concave grounded plate, when his generator was charged at 500,000 statvolts. Were this simply an electrical phenomenon, then the mere presence of the grounded plate would have instantly destroyed the effect. Interestingly, when the power was turned off, the objects were observed to remain suspended for quite some time.

Nikola Tesla's work on what he called "electro-radiant impulses", which he considered to result from his “disruptive discharges”, is outlined in detail in the London Royal Society lectures of February 1892. Fundamentally speaking, the effects of his "disruptive field impulses" exceed the effects of any manner of electron-based electro-inductive effects by several orders of magnitude. Tesla considered these aether impulses to be electrostatic in nature. In 1892 Crookes upheld Tesla as the discoverer of a new kind of electrical force. Tesla held that electric and magnetic forces are manifestations of this more primal aether-electricity, which he viewed as streamlines of aether particles in gas-like flows. His "radiant electricity" was a gaseous emanation, an aetheric motion, according to his empirical experimental results. Tesla experimentally measured the propagation velocity of radiant electricity and discovered such propagations were faster than light.

Best Wishes,

Neil
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Nick
Posted: Nov 30 2006, 06:49 AM


-- LIGHT FELL --
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Changes in gravity propagate at light speed. biggrin.gif

Mitch Raemsch -- Light Falls --
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bpj1138
Posted: Nov 30 2007, 07:09 PM


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QUOTE
In the late 1700's La Sage proposed an explanation for Newton's gravity. It took the form of a proof that an inverse square attractive force is generated by two bodies shadowing each other from an all-pervasive background of moving microscopic bodies, which were constantly impacting on the larger bodies.


I call it "the shielding effect".

QUOTE

LaSage showed that as these smaller bodies become arbitrarily small and as the size of the shadow becomes smaller, relative to the separation of the bodies, an inverse square relation is produced.


Could these smaller bodies be photons? Just a thought.

QUOTE

This background of small impacting bodies constitutes an aether.


I don't like the word "aether", because it has the QM association which supposes that space voilates enery conservation by emitting photons out of nowhere, but you are no doubt using this word correctly.

QUOTE

From this basis, La Sage produced a mechanism similar to General Relativity for Newtonian gravity. La Sage then developed a differential form of Special Relativity for accelerating frames, preceding Einstein's Relativity.


In a word, relativity is bogus--anybody should realize this when its logical conclusion is "time dilation". Time isn't a substance, or even a dimension, it's merely a function of movement in the three spatial dimensions.

QUOTE

Later, Einstein produced the “Equivalence Theorem” whereby gravity was proposed to be equivalent to an accelerating frame of reference (matter affecting the hypothetical "space-time").


The operative word here is "hypothetical". And thank you for using the quotes too.

QUOTE

La Sage would have answered to the expressions of Einstein, that gravitation alters the path of photons in the same manner as it acts on all other entities.


This whole point is moot, because the assumption was that photons have no mass therefore aren't affected by gravity, but Dr. E's own equation says E=MC^2, so M=E/C^2. You'd think a genious like him could do simple algebra. Seriously though, light is bent by other light.. it's called interference.

QUOTE

The three spatial dimensions and the variable of time mean that the curved photon trajectories existing in this early differential form of general relativity (a kind of Galilean relativity) produce the same effects currently attributed to "curved space-time". La Sage's model generates the same results as General Relativity without resorting to any new spatial dimensions, using only 3-D geometry, the conservation of momentum, and a differential form of general relativity.[Whittaker]


At least we all agree that simpler is better and that it's best not to resort to ad-hoc inventions.

QUOTE

About 1853, the Marquis de LaPlace developed a model for gravitation which was an improvement and extension of the previous work done by La Sage.


I guess he thought it needed improvement.

QUOTE

In this model, gravitation is caused by the pressure of a ubiquitous gas composed of “infinitesimal particles”, each of which has an intrinsic velocity of millions of times the speed of light.


So it's the same theory, except it invents superluminal particles for some unknown and dubious purpose (I'm guessing some sort of action at a distance nonsense) Well, at least it gave me a chance to respond to the original topic of this post.

QUOTE

This model for gravitation produces all the results of Relativity theory,  while describing the actual cause of gravitation without resorting to any more than 3 Euclidean dimensions, nor requiring the mathematical fabrication of a “metric”. [Whittaker]


I didn't realize that the object of physics was to reproduce the results of relativity, which by the way is proven wrong by the academics themselves, after all, that why they invented that silly dark matter.

QUOTE

(Relativity theory only describes what happens as a result of gravitation; that is to say, what gravity does. Relativity theory does not tell us what causes gravitation, nor what gravity actually is.) Inertia in the LaPlacian system is explained as the resistance to motion caused by the inflowing fluidic media, where Newton's Third Law is invoked, resulting in a direct relation between gravitation and inertia. The tendency of an object to remain in motion is due to the equilibrium of the pressure of the media on the already moving object, arising as it does, from all directions, similar to a “heat bath”.


And the tendency to stay stationary, or resist acceleration, is due to the build up of the EM pressure on the part of the object that points towards the direction acceleration. It's just like moving through a fluid, except it's a photon fluid.

QUOTE

Einstein identified the existence of gravity with the inertial motion of accelerating bodies, whereas contemporary physicists identify the existence of gravity with space-time curvature. This interpretation of gravity as a local curvature in space-time is an interpretation Einstein did not agree with. When we examine Einstein's expressions regarding curved space-time, we are reminded that Einstein held the view that any space-time curvature would only occur at cosmic scales,  not locally.


Except on sundays too..

QUOTE

Many have been led to believe that the 1935 experiments involving observations of a star during a total eclipse, which should have been obscured by the mass of the sun, represent evidence of a local space-time curvature (gravity well) in the vicinity of the sun. In fact, exactly the same results will be incurred if we place a density gradient of one of Mendeleev's Zero Group gases around the sun, which density increases as we approach the stellar body. The altered path of light which is observed in these circumstances, is then simply due to refraction, the change in the refractive index of space in the vicinity of the sun, due to the presence of a density gradient of gases, which causes any light which enters into the region of the density gradient to be bent away from its normal path, in the manner of an optical lens.


Ok, back to the moot point again.. see "interference"..

QUOTE

Because gravitation is the result of the constant inflowing of (subquantum) gases we are calling an aether, it seems that gravitation can be temporarily locally neutralized by applications of very fast, positive-going electrostatic field discharges, exceeding 500,000 statvolts, to the object. This can happen because such discharges result in out-bound aether fluxes which intersect with, and effectively block, the incoming gravitational aether stream, because the local aether pressure, out-bound, is stronger than the local gravitational aether pressure, which is in-bound. This was first demonstrated by Piggot in France in July 1920. Piggot was able to suspend 1/2 inch diameter solid silver balls, and other materials, in the space between an electrostatically charged sphere, and a concave grounded plate, when his generator was charged at 500,000 statvolts. Were this simply an electrical phenomenon, then the mere presence of the grounded plate would have instantly destroyed the effect. Interestingly, when the power was turned off, the objects were observed to remain suspended for quite some time.


You keep making these distinctions and sidestepping EM, while in the same breath, you talk about using EM to interact with and manipulate this "aether" which you now call "subquantum gas(es)". I agree with everything you say, but you keep going back to unnecessarily inventing some separate entity which is somehow "not EM", which in itself is an impossibility. How can something not be EM? How could you then detect it with materials made up of EM?

QUOTE

Nikola Tesla's work on what he called "electro-radiant impulses", which he considered to result from  his “disruptive discharges”, is outlined in detail in the London Royal Society lectures of February 1892. Fundamentally speaking, the effects of his "disruptive field impulses" exceed the effects of any manner of electron-based electro-inductive effects by several orders of magnitude. Tesla considered these aether impulses to be electrostatic in nature. In 1892 Crookes upheld Tesla as the discoverer of a new kind of electrical force. Tesla held that electric and magnetic forces are manifestations of this more primal aether-electricity, which he viewed as streamlines of aether particles in gas-like flows. His "radiant electricity" was a gaseous emanation, an aetheric motion, according to his empirical experimental results. Tesla experimentally measured the propagation velocity of radiant electricity and discovered such propagations were faster than light.


And now you restate the same argument yet again invoking Tesla's name in order to make it more believeable, and the fact that some other person upheld this. No amount of name dropping proves anything in any field. You seek simplicity yet you believe that there are two different types of universal mediums as if God needed to repeat or bootstrap himself. Anyway, thanks for doing all the historical research, and I hope you can see my side of the argument.

--Bart

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