Particles have mass, HOW?, Higgs or ?

THREAD SUMMARY (42 PAGES)
Particles have mass, HOW?
Initiated and prepared by: simple jal

1. THE QUESTION WAS RE-PHRASED IN MANY DIFFERENT WAYS IN ORDER TO ACHIEVE GREATER CLARITY.
2. MANY LINKS WERE SUPPLIED FOR THE BENEFIT OF THOSE WANTING TO KNOW MORE INFORMATION.
THE BEST REFERENCE BEING
The mysteries of Mass

EXAMPLE OF THE DISCUSSIONS

MORE SPECIFICALLY, (as per the accepted standard theory)

3. THIS THREAD IS AT THE STAGE OF TRYING TO DETERMINE/SELECT AN APPROACH THAT WARRANTS FURTHER INVESTIGATION.
4. THIS THREAD IS NOT TRYING TO FIND THE NEXT NOBLE PRIZE WINNER WITH HIS NEW THEORY.
5. PICTURES ARE NOT AN ACCEPTABLE FORM OF A PRESENTATION AND SHOULD NOT BE SUBMITTED BECAUSE THEY BURY EVERYONE ELSE POINTS.(unless requested by the thread originator)
6. LONG QUOTATION ARE NOT APPRECIATED AND SHOULD BE SHORT
7. SUPPORTING LINKS ARE ENCOURAGED.
CONCLUSION
THEREFORE, PARTICIPANTS/READERS... I URGE YOU TO PROCEED WITH THE SELECTION AN APPROACH BEFORE THE DATA FROM THE Large Hadron Collider HAS BEEN ANALYZED.

Sir jal,

I have been around the block a few, you will always have the one who will have blinders on that can only see what he chooses, but is very opinionated in the fact, he does not want to discuss the topic but try and overwhelm you with his theory?

He has the inside (he thinks) & the thousands of physicist working on the problem still in question do not, thus I might add they are open minded to the fact that, with great expectation LHC, Fermilab, SLAC, & other reputable labs around the world, will find the answer what ever it might be, in the coming months.

There is light from raido / gamma particles (emitted from many sources in our universe), that are tested in the proposition of the Aether, ----THERE IS NO AETHER-----! ! ! Just in his pictures that is all. Proven end of subject, and I am sure he will say other wise. But again, he will not see the (light), as -yq- would say -----PUN!

Well, said above ^ ^, do not give up on your search, you will learn much in the laws of physics and this in turn will give you the tools for many other pursuits in the field.

Best of luck,
jal
emoryalemit

Well, pictures can be unpleasant for some people, because they can demonstrate brightly, if somebody understands the subject or not. After all, the picture embedding is the built-in functionality of this forum.

Do not hate me for this Mr. jal, however, I think that it should be expressed. I know that I am at least the most confused here. Please do not become angry as I ask that Zephir give us a summary of the major points in the Aether Wave Theory, since that is the only major theory that has been expressed consistantly through out this thread.

The main introducing point in the Aether Wave Theory as the semi-qualitative TOE theory is:

The observable Universe is composed from the waves of massive environment, the evolution of which can be computed recursively using wave equation for string as modular form, where the mass density of string corresponds the total energy density of the wave motion (i.e. the sum of the potential and kinetic energy of this motion). The one-step solution of such modular form leads to the Schrodinger equation known from quantum mechanic.

I believe, from this relation is possible to derive all the other insights, which I've presented here during time, for example:

1) The evolution both the observable mass, both the biosphere and human civilization can be described by the recursive wave equation with generalized terms for time, energy potential and space. From this point of view the "Aether" is the common metaphysical denominator for such evolutionary environment.

2) The gravity is formed by the Casimir force between gravitons. Here is not principal difference between behavior of vacuum and other massive environments, based on the surface energy spreading in transversal waves. It enables to explain the c=const postulate, the twins paradox and other relativity effects. All they have a Rayleigh wave spreading analogies in the real world (strings, water surface waves).

3) The Universe is formed by the dense elastic foam recursively, the inertial torsion deformations with the spinor components are creating both the particles composing the massive vacuum, both the particles of the observable matter. Nearly no mass/energy density is required for the formation of Universe, but the origin of the initial Aether inertia required for the subsequent compactification of it is uncertain.

4) The energy spreading in inhomogeneous vacuum is forming a path for the subsequent energy spreading due the minimization of action principle(autofocusation effect for energy spreading through it's own gradient, similar to the negative refraction index materials). This leads to the autofocusation of the energy waves to the form of energy wave pockets (i.e. bosons) by the gravity lens mechanism of the subsequent energy density field and finally to the formation of particles due the total reflection effect.

5) The same effect (compactification of space and particle formation) can be described from the GR point of view as the process of spontaneous symmetry breaking (i.e. the oscillating vortices formation inside the superfluid vacuum with supercritical energy density. Such fluid is formed by such vortices (i.e. torsion deformation of it) at the same time. This model explains the supersymmetry as the process of the formation of fermions from bosons recursively.

6) The formation of new space-time metric is limited by the minimization of action principle (i.e. the surface area/volume ratio) by the similar way, as the surface hypersphere with the infimum around 6D convolution level. This explains the stability of the 6D vacuum, which is forming the major (most massive) part of observable Universe.

7) Above the 6D space convolution level, the gravity force becomes repulsive, being the source of non-Abelian deformations inside the particles. Above the 12 D the space time becomes flat, forming a new multidimensional "emptiness" for the subsequent formation of the daughter Universe (so called singularity). Such process can be both adiabatic, both steady state.

8) The vacuum can be described by the 6D fluid composed from 3D particles, the torsion deformation of which are mutually connected in so called particle generations. The 3D is the minimal convolution level required for repulsive charge of such particles, this explains the number of dimensions of observable space.

9) The Aether phase transitions leads to the formation of the hidden dimensions set in process of so called inflation, similar to the condensation of the supercritical vapor. The Universe doesn't expand from the perspective of observer outside of such environment, but is making more dense, instead. The dark energy is simple gravity effect, corresponding to the compactification acceleration of the collapsars.

10) The observable mass is adiabatically cooled metastable phase, forming during the inflation as the result of shock waves collisions, leading to the quasar formations. These object are metastable, exploding to the radiation and cooling, during this the foams of the observable matter and antimatter are formed. The most of antimatter is contained in the so called dark matter (i.e. vacuum fluctuations with the low convolution levels)

11) The black holes cannot by formed by accretion, because the limit of its spontaneous formation is much more higher than Chandrasekhar's limit, but as the rest of quasars, instead. They're behaving like the neutrino stars, part of mass of it is unaccessible form outside due the space-time compactification inside it (negative gravity). The observation of the mass limit of such BH can serve as the indirect indicia for content of adiabatic singularities, i.e. daughter universes.

Etc, see my former submissions for the other insights, leading from the Aether Wave hypothesis. I believe. they're quite consistent, but please don't expect, you'll understand everything at the first moment without some practical physic background/explanation, which is collected in my former posts to the physorg.com forum. You can search/browse it using simple off-line OpenSource application.

I think that mass is an illusion caused by gravitons.

Thank you, Mr. Zephir. I find that both theories (Superstring & Aether wave) are just as evenly interesting. Please, would you give my assumptions a yay or a nay. Since looking at both theories I find that the Aether wave (going in alphabetical order, everyone) is a matter theory made out of energy. This means that matter is made of energy, and since the posting by Mr. Zephir, it creates mass through the motion of energy within the particle. Now the Superstring is a energy theory made out of matter. This just means that the vibration of the strings, at different frequencies, create the different types of energy. The one that was not mentioned obviously is made out of what causes energy or matter. It seems that no two are in the same theory. Would love to hear input, everyone.

..and the energy can be expressed as the inertial motion of the other matter. Such concept is recursive - don't expect, without some inertia you can pass some energy into finite volume.

The main ad-hoc superstring theory concept, i.e. string is tightly connected with the inertia too. The Aether wave theory has no other consideration about Aether structure - everything in it is the result of the recursive wave solution. The superstring theory is missing such concept, the structures in it (dualities, branes) are Dirichlet conditions ad-hoc chosen for such string solution, enabling to solve it by the common math procedures. As the result, the superstring theory is somewhat over-defined. By the Aether wave theory just a approximative numeric solution of Universe exists.

But I believe, both superstring, both Aether wave theory cannot explain the true inertial mass origin without infinite recursion.

Just a question here. Do you think that it is possible that Matter AND energy are two separate things?

From practical point of view the mass can be expressed using an energy and vice versa. For example, each massive ring can be derived from much smaller massive sphere, which revolves by the high speed around eccentric center, recursively. I believe, it's possible to derive the mass of the whole observable Universe by such way.



But I've a "slight" problem with causality, as I need some inertial mass at the very beginning. It means, the inertia cannot be explained just by energy without infinite recursion. The Universe existence still has its own private secret.

The main introducing point in the Aether Wave Theory as the semi-qualitative TOE theory is:

The observable Universe is composed from the waves of massive environment, the evolution of which can be computed recursively using wave equation for string as modular form, where the mass density of string corresponds the total energy density of the wave motion (i.e. the sum of the potential and kinetic energy of this motion). The one-step solution of such modular form leads to the Schrodinger equation known from quantum mechanic.

I believe, from this relation is possible to derive all the other insights, which I've presented here during time, for example:

1) The evolution both the observable mass, both the biosphere and human civilization can be described by the recursive wave equation with generalized terms for time, energy potential and space. From this point of view the "Aether" is the common metaphysical denominator for such evolutionary environment.

2) The gravity is formed by the Casimir force between gravitons. Here is not principal difference between behavior of vacuum and other massive environments, based on the surface energy spreading in transversal waves. It enables to explain the c=const postulate, the twins paradox and other relativity effects. All they have a Rayleigh wave spreading analogies in the real world (strings, water surface waves).

3) The Universe is formed by the dense elastic foam recursively, the inertial torsion deformations with the spinor components are creating both the particles composing the massive vacuum, both the particles of the observable matter. Nearly no mass/energy density is required for the formation of Universe, but the origin of the initial Aether inertia required for the subsequent compactification of it is uncertain.

4) The energy spreading in inhomogeneous vacuum is forming a path for the subsequent energy spreading due the minimization of action principle(autofocusation effect for energy spreading through it's own gradient, similar to the negative refraction index materials). This leads to the autofocusation of the energy waves to the form of energy wave pockets (i.e. bosons) by the gravity lens mechanism of the subsequent energy density field and finally to the formation of particles due the total reflection effect.

5) The same effect (compactification of space and particle formation) can be described from the GR point of view as the process of spontaneous symmetry breaking (i.e. the oscillating vortices formation inside the superfluid vacuum with supercritical energy density. Such fluid is formed by such vortices (i.e. torsion deformation of it) at the same time. This model explains the supersymmetry as the process of the formation of fermions from bosons recursively.

6) The formation of new space-time metric is limited by the minimization of action principle (i.e. the surface area/volume ratio) by the similar way, as the surface hypersphere with the infimum around 6D convolution level. This explains the stability of the 6D vacuum, which is forming the major (most massive) part of observable Universe.

7) Above the 6D space convolution level, the gravity force becomes repulsive, being the source of non-Abelian deformations inside the particles. Above the 12 D the space time becomes flat, forming a new multidimensional "emptiness" for the subsequent formation of the daughter Universe (so called singularity). Such process can be both adiabatic, both steady state.

8) The vacuum can be described by the 6D fluid composed from 3D particles, the torsion deformation of which are mutually connected in so called particle generations. The 3D is the minimal convolution level required for repulsive charge of such particles, this explains the number of dimensions of observable space.

9) The Aether phase transitions leads to the formation of the hidden dimensions set in process of so called inflation, similar to the condensation of the supercritical vapor. The Universe doesn't expand from the perspective of observer outside of such environment, but is making more dense, instead. The dark energy is simple gravity effect, corresponding to the compactification acceleration of the collapsars.

10) The observable mass is adiabatically cooled metastable phase, forming during the inflation as the result of shock waves collisions, leading to the quasar formations. These object are metastable, exploding to the radiation and cooling, during this the foams of the observable matter and antimatter are formed. The most of antimatter is contained in the so called dark matter (i.e. vacuum fluctuations with the low convolution levels)

11) The black holes cannot by formed by accretion, because the limit of its spontaneous formation is much more higher than Chandrasekhar's limit, but as the rest of quasars, instead. They're behaving like the neutrino stars, part of mass of it is unaccessible form outside due the space-time compactification inside it (negative gravity). The observation of the mass limit of such BH can serve as the indirect indicia for content of adiabatic singularities, i.e. daughter universes.

Etc, see my former submissions for the other insights, leading from the Aether Wave hypothesis. I believe. they're quite consistent, but please don't expect, you'll understand everything at the first moment without some practical physic background/explanation, which is collected in my former posts to the physorg.com forum. You can search/browse it using simple off-line OpenSource application.

It's really unbelivabe that the casimir force between gravitons causes gravity.
Gravitons have no mass and they have exceedingly low energies. The casimor force is almost unmeasurable between solid plates that weight a lot more than gravitons. Can the aether wave theory give the correct orbit of the earth around the sun? Can it find the orbit of the moon around the earth?

The Casimir force is the force between photons (wavepockets of light), whereas the supergravity is the force between gravitons (wavepockets of gravity, i.e. space time wave). Both they're massless, just the concept remains.



The Casimir force mechanism is the only one mechanism by my knowledge, which appears universaly between all the transversal wave pockets in energy field without any other assumptions (compare to the Le Sage hypothesis of gravity).

BTW The Casimir force isn't so weak: at the 15 nm distance it reaches the 1 atm pressure.

FYI,

Casimir force, but also in their ability to see past it to the far fainter effects of gravity in the nanoworld, which team members believe could lead to far more profound knowledge about the universe.

We're doing work that could have cosmological implications, but it rests on the behavior of objects too small to see with the naked eye. Though measuring the Casimir force we are trying to do is find out whether gravity behaves differently than we think it does if the scale is small enough. The trouble is that the Casimir force is so strong at that scale that it [virtually drowns] out gravity to the point where it is unobservable."

To solve the problem, so you need to placed a tiny sphere made of gold on the tip of a flexible cantilever, giving the impression of a ball on the end of a diving board [this is how it is tested]. Then mount the cantilever on a mobile stand that could be moved from side to side. A few hundred nanometers beneath the sphere was a plate made of two different materials - gold on one side, germanium on the other - both of which were then covered in a very thin layer of gold.

Because the influence of the Casimir force is noticeable over distances of only a few hundred nanometers, its effect between the gold surfaces of the ball and the plate were equal regardless of which material lay beneath the gold layer. But because gravity can be observed over greater distances, we are able to move the sphere back and forth over the plate, observing how far the cantilever bent over the two sections.

ciao_
yquantum

http://www.iop.org/EJ/abstract/0264-9381/22/23/012/

[SIZE=7][COLOR=green] The simplest answer I have thus far encountered and by far the most elegant answer as to "Why Particles Have Mass" can be found on the following site in a paper published there called "THE THREE ELEMENTS".
[URL=www.nuphysics4u.com]

Fizzeksman,

Not sure who that person is, but maybe this will help.

http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn6558

Later Sir,
Brian