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> Matter As "condensed" Space?
samik83
Posted: Mar 10 2012, 01:11 AM


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Hi,

Might be a silly question, but have to ask since I haven't found an answer and this has been on my mind for awhile now. I'm not a physicist so forgive me if the question is daft.

Are there any theories that support the view that matter is the result of "condensed" / "contracted" space? A theory that looks at the possibility that the current model is backwards. Where
instead of matter causing space to curve, curved space would be the cause of matter.

I guess it would be something where the primary forces would liken to dark matter and dark energy and their interplay to create different systems of particles and states of matter.
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Robittybob1
Posted: Mar 10 2012, 04:07 AM


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QUOTE (samik83 @ Mar 10 2012, 01:11 AM)
Hi,

Might be a silly question, but have to ask since I haven't found an answer and this has been on my mind for awhile now. I'm not a physicist so forgive me if the question is daft.

Are there any theories that support the view that matter is the result of "condensed" / "contracted" space? A theory that looks at the possibility that the current model is backwards. Where
instead of matter causing space to curve, curved space would be the cause of matter.

I guess it would be something where the primary forces would liken to dark matter and dark energy and their interplay to create different systems of particles and states of matter.

Interesting idea.
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Hasmukh K. Tank
Posted: Mar 10 2012, 11:25 AM


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Quote: "Are there any theories that support the view that matter is the result of "condensed" / "contracted" space?"

It will be interesting to recall an 18th century mathematician, William Clifford, according to whom: "A piece of matter is nothing but curvature of space, subject, possibly, to fluctuations, in the manner of waves."

It may also be interesting to read: 'holistic theory of everything' at the site:
[URL=http://sites.google.com/site/theultimaterealitysite]
http://sites.google.com/site/theultimaterealitysite[/URL]

'Space' is currently believed as 'void extension of nothingness'; whereas according to the holistic theory of everything, 'space' is the only real thing, and particles of matter are 'process' or a 'phenomenon' of fluctuations taken place in the 'space-continuum'.

This post has been edited by Hasmukh K. Tank on Mar 10 2012, 11:32 AM
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samik83
Posted: Mar 10 2012, 06:10 PM


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QUOTE (Hasmukh K. Tank @ Mar 10 2012, 11:25 AM)
Quote: "Are there any theories that support the view that matter is the result of "condensed" / "contracted" space?"

It will be interesting to recall an 18th century mathematician, William Clifford, according to whom: "A piece of matter is nothing but curvature of space, subject, possibly, to fluctuations, in the manner of waves."

It may also be interesting to read: 'holistic theory of everything' at the site:
[URL=http://sites.google.com/site/theultimaterealitysite]
http://sites.google.com/site/theultimaterealitysite[/URL]

'Space' is currently believed as 'void extension of nothingness'; whereas according to the holistic theory of everything, 'space' is the only real thing, and particles of matter are 'process' or a 'phenomenon' of fluctuations taken place in the 'space-continuum'.

Thank you for pointing me in the right direction and for the link.
Interesting that Williams Cliffords Space-Theory of Matter later influenced Einsteins general theory of relativity.
Also find it interesting that theres so little theories on this. At least from a layman perspective this seems very appealing when it comes to unified field theory



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physical
Posted: Mar 11 2012, 09:56 AM


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Fine thinking,i think so.


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Aziz
Posted: Jun 26 2012, 07:05 PM


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Hello everyone! I've just joined this forum, because I googled "matter is condensed space" and found this topic.. smile.gif You won't believe me, but this idea also came into my mind lately this year... So I just wanted to check my assumptions. I'm also an "amateur scientist" in physics, having a bachelors' degree in sociology.

How I came to this crazy idea about matter being condensed space.. I just thought about reasons of gravity, read about Einstein's curving of space as the main reason.. And suddenly was bumped by idea - what if condensed space while forming matter, also creates some kind of a "space vacuum", which begins to attract every matter/space around which is more "condensed", thus creating a gravitational field.. So what do you think of it? May be some professional physic can use this as a brainstorm seed, and some day make friends (not conquer! smile.gif) with Time & Space? Who knows..

I also have some amateur speculations on Space and Time, extra dimensions here (in Russian):
http_azizazizov.livejournal.com
Sorry for my unspoken English.. sad.gif
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niels
Posted: Jun 26 2012, 07:58 PM


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QUOTE (samik83 @ Mar 10 2012, 01:11 AM)
Hi,

Might be a silly question, but have to ask since I haven't found an answer and this has been on my mind for awhile now. I'm not a physicist so forgive me if the question is daft.

Are there any theories that support the view that matter is the result of "condensed" / "contracted" space? A theory that looks at the possibility that the current model is backwards. Where
instead of matter causing space to curve, curved space would be the cause of matter.

I guess it would be something where the primary forces would liken to dark matter and dark energy and their interplay to create different systems of particles and states of matter.

This kind of speculation has been suggested

I have been airing this idea which I have named the 3D Pixel Universe since several years, and with little success in this Forum. The idea is plain speculation, has nothing to do with science, is pure speculation and cannot be substantiated nor falsified. On the positive side no one has come up with any arguments invalidating the idea.

You may get a gist of the speculations in among others the recent thread Alternative Explanation of Absolute Time, and where it is mentioned among others in a post of 10, June

@Matter IS repetitive wavepatterns, matter is NOT creating wavepatterns in the cosmic matrix, it is the OPPOSITE WAY, cosmic wave patterns express what we sense as matter. Universe is NOT spinning against a stationary vacuum, there is no stationary vacuum, vacuum cannot sit still.@

and if you like you can follow my posting, where this idea has been consistently elaborated.
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Mekigal
Posted: Jun 26 2012, 08:07 PM


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wow! Just wow . Differential . Why are we thinking of this in group form with no real ties to each other . The negative pressure that Alex eluded to seems kind of evident .

Feeding off each other or available information gathering from child hood to adulthood?
The commonality of thought is provoking in it self . Just realizing that
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Mekigal
Posted: Jun 26 2012, 08:23 PM


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QUOTE (Hasmukh K. Tank @ Mar 10 2012, 11:25 AM)
Quote: "Are there any theories that support the view that matter is the result of "condensed" / "contracted" space?"

It will be interesting to recall an 18th century mathematician, William Clifford, according to whom: "A piece of matter is nothing but curvature of space, subject, possibly, to fluctuations, in the manner of waves."

It may also be interesting to read: 'holistic theory of everything' at the site:
[URL=http://sites.google.com/site/theultimaterealitysite]
http://sites.google.com/site/theultimaterealitysite[/URL]

'Space' is currently believed as 'void extension of nothingness'; whereas according to the holistic theory of everything, 'space' is the only real thing, and particles of matter are 'process' or a 'phenomenon' of fluctuations taken place in the 'space-continuum'.

Is this right ? If so you are saying that light in side a perfectly polished ball will eventually come to rest as matter by the photo electric effect ? Is that what you are saying ?

Disputers take a look at this >>> I read it as saying Photons have a loss and that loss becomes matter ? Verification please . I am easily swayed, so make it look good for skeptics . Not just for my easiness. What is the deal with 4n anyway ? I sure see that a lot.
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ananda99eng
Posted: Dec 19 2012, 07:23 AM


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Jesus! last couple of month i was taking interest in the new documentary hosted by Morgan Freeman call "Through the wormhole" and was also reading about quantum mechanics from the various sources in the internet...... and the same question came to my mind, can matter actually be condensed space?

Was so surprised to see so many people having similar thought, for a while i thought i was the only one ha ha.

Yup if i may add another thought i had was if matter is condensed space then the only dimensions that will make sense is time and space...
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Devinder Dhiman
Posted: Jul 23 2013, 09:12 AM


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Hi,
I wish to articulate that space can condense to form matter, and it is possible to find the relation between space and matter but it can not be done within the constraints of present laws of physics.
For space condensing to form matter, you have to first envisage a medium of space. There itself you will part ways with the present laws of physics, and thereafter the journey is real tough because you travel in a new world of physics. But at the end you will realize the simplicity of the concept when you will find how four fundamental forces combine into one force only and the number of fundamental particles reduce to two instead of 18 of standard model of physics.
Obviously, it will take a long time before the physics community gives any heed to this seemingly absurd idea. But then which idea in the beginning does not seem absurd? Revolving of earth around sun was considered absurd few centuries back. Quantum mechanics was considered absurd in the beginning of 20th century, and there are many more instances.
So, I would like to point out that 'Whether Space can condense to form matter?" is not a silly question. If anyone wish to probe it further and see how it is possible, they may refer to my book 'Lines of Space'.
Devinder Dhiman
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gravitational_aether
Posted: Jul 23 2013, 01:10 PM


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QUOTE (samik83 @ Mar 10 2012, 01:11 AM)
Hi,

Might be a silly question, but have to ask since I haven't found an answer and this has been on my mind for awhile now. I'm not a physicist so forgive me if the question is daft.

Are there any theories that support the view that matter is the result of "condensed" / "contracted" space? A theory that looks at the possibility that the current model is backwards. Where
instead of matter causing space to curve, curved space would be the cause of matter.

I guess it would be something where the primary forces would liken to dark matter and dark energy and their interplay to create different systems of particles and states of matter.

Aether has mass.

Particles of matter are condensations of aether.

Particles of matter exist in and displace the aether.

Aether physically occupies three dimensional space. Aether is physically displaced by matter. There is no such thing as non-baryonic dark matter anchored to matter. Matter moves through and displaces the aether.

The Milky Way's halo is what is referred to as the curvature of spacetime.

The Milky Way's halo is the state of displacement of the aether.

The geometrical representation of gravity as curved spacetime physically exists in nature as the state of displacement of the aether.

Displaced aether pushing back and exerting inward pressure toward matter is gravity.

'Ether and the Theory of Relativity - Albert Einstein'
http://www.tu-harburg.de/rzt/rzt/it/Ether.html

"Since according to our present conceptions the elementary particles of matter are also, in their essence, nothing else than condensations of the electromagnetic field"

The electromagnetic field is a state of the aether. Particles of matter are condensations of aether.

'DOES THE INERTIA OF A BODY DEPEND UPON ITS ENERGY-CONTENT?' A. EINSTEIN
http://www.fourmilab.ch/etexts/einstein/E_mc2/e_mc2.pdf

"If a body gives off the energy L in the form of radiation, its mass diminishes by L/c2."

The mass of the body does diminish. However, the matter which no longer exists as part of the body has not vanished; it still exists, as aether. Matter evaporates into aether. As matter evaporates into aether it expands into neighboring places; which is energy. Mass is conserved.

When a nuclear bomb explodes matter evaporates into aether. The evaporation is energy. Mass is conserved.
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