Scientific Forums


 

Closed Topic Start new topic Start new poll


> Sun Twice As Old As The Universe, Maybe?
Quantum_Conundrum
Posted: Feb 24 2012, 08:08 PM


Advanced Member
*****

Group: Power Member
Posts: 1943
Joined: 30-April 07

Positive Feedback: 30.43%
Feedback Score: -123


Here's the calculation.

I did it by hand to derive it, but the wiki article has a close enough estimate.

"Since fusing hydrogen into helium releases around 0.7% of the fused mass as energy,[48] the Sun releases energy at the mass-energy conversion rate of 4.26 million metric tons per second, 384.6 yotta watts (3.8461026 W)."

I did a more precise calculation using the average distance to the earth as r and finding area of a sphere, and multiply by solar constant.



If you divide the Sun's mass by the rate of mass loss, or more correctly, rate of mass converted from Hydrogen to Helium, you get:

103,446,165,101 years for the maximum length of the P-P chain in the sun's life cycle.

If you subtract the sun's existing hydrogen portion of 0.7346 from 1, to get the time it took to get to it's present condition, and multiply the above number, you get:

103,446,165,101 years lifetime * (1-0.7346 = 27,454,612,217.8 years past.



It turns out this is exactly twice the alleged radius of the observable universe in light years.

27, 454,612,217.8 yr / 2 = 13,727,306,108.9 yr

Alleged age of the universe, as per wiki:

13.75 plus or minus 0.17 billion years.

The remainder of the difference can be explained by margins of error in instrumentation plus the solar wind, other ejecta and comet collisions the Sun has had in it's lifetime, etc, which would have slightly modified it's hydrogen composition.

In fact, this "age" falls within the upper and lower limits of the margin of error in the universe's age.

Therefore, the Sun is exactly twice as old as the Universe!

or ELSE it is somehow releasing roughly half of it's energy in a form we have not yet been able to detect, and which somehow doesn't interact with our physical realm, thus the "divide by two equals the universe's age".

It could be some combination of neutrinos or gravitational waves.


In any case, this suggests the Sun and the Universe were probably created simultaneously, or so close to it that we can't tell the difference.


Occam's razor, right?

Sun's "missing hydrogen" equals twice the age of the universe, suggesting half the energy escapes in a "weakly interacting" form which we do not observe., in order to get a logical age limit with the sun being exactly the same age as the universe.


vs

"main sequence stars are all second or third generations stars which have formed from the heavy metal ejected remains of other stars in a complex combination of explosions and reformations collapsing "old" hydrogen nebulae which we are to believe "somehow" survived the entire lifetime of first generation stars without collapsing on their own,...and we've just never seen a verifiably second generation star being formed....for some reason..."



Essentially, this is mathematical proof that the Sun and Universe were created at virtually the exact same moment in time, if we allow for the excess energy to be represented as neutrinos and other weak interacting particles.


this overturns the mainstream theory of star formation, since the Sun is exactly as old as the universe itself.

This post has been edited by Quantum_Conundrum on Feb 24 2012, 08:21 PM
Top
AlexG
Posted: Feb 24 2012, 09:33 PM


Advanced Member
*****

Group: Power Member
Posts: 5652
Joined: 8-September 06

Positive Feedback: 73.91%
Feedback Score: 108


QUOTE
In any case, this suggests the Sun and the Universe were probably created simultaneously, or so close to it that we can't tell the difference.



No, it suggest you've fucked up.


--------------------
Its the way nature is!
If you dont like it, go somewhere else....
To another universe, where the rules are simpler
Philosophically more pleasing, more psychologically easy
Prof Richard Fyenman (1979) .....

God does not roll dice with the Universe" - A. Einstein

"God not only plays dice with the Universe, He rolls them where you can't see" - N. Bohr


Top
Quantum_Conundrum
Posted: Feb 24 2012, 09:53 PM


Advanced Member
*****

Group: Power Member
Posts: 1943
Joined: 30-April 07

Positive Feedback: 30.43%
Feedback Score: -123


QUOTE (AlexG @ Feb 24 2012, 04:33 PM)

No, it suggest you've fucked up.

Try the math yourself and see.

Easy enough, really.

You don't think getting an "age" exactly equal to the diameter of the universe in light years is a coincidence do you?


If that's a coincidence caused by a mistake, then it's a 1/27 billion chance of happening...

Top
synthsin75
Posted: Feb 24 2012, 10:33 PM


Ex Nihilo
*****

Group: Power Member
Posts: 2253
Joined: 19-December 10

Positive Feedback: 93.75%
Feedback Score: 22


You are confusing the age of the universe with its size. We don't know its true size. We only know the diameter of the observable universe, which is 93 billion light-years, and its age, which is 13.75 billion years. There's also a lot of assumptions made without providing the work you did to get them.


--------------------
Any future development must involve changing something which people have never challenged up to the present,
and which will not be shown up by an axiomatic formulation. -P.A.M.Dirac
Top
flyingbuttressman
Posted: Feb 25 2012, 12:31 AM


noblesse oblige / nullius in verba
*****

Group: Power Member
Posts: 5823
Joined: 8-June 09

Positive Feedback: 68.66%
Feedback Score: 166


Oh look, calculator masturbator is back.


--------------------
"The most exciting phrase to hear in science, the one that heralds new discoveries, is not 'Eureka!' but 'That's funny...' "
- Isaac Asimov

Hall of Shame -

"The days of correct spelling are over."
- Whitewolf4869
Top
Lady Elizabeth
Posted: Feb 25 2012, 01:28 AM


Dame of the British Empire.
*****

Group: Power Member
Posts: 2259
Joined: 11-December 10

Positive Feedback: 85.71%
Feedback Score: 5


QUOTE (Quantum_Conundrum @ Feb 24 2012, 09:53 PM)
You don't think getting an "age" exactly equal to the diameter of the universe in light years is a coincidence do you?


Not so much "coincidence" ..... a tad more;- STFU you delusional ignoramus.

Any retard (you're clear proof of that) can generate this type of profound drivel.

What next?

"If you divide Avogadro's number 6.02 x 10^23 by the size of my willy in femtometers, it equals the exact number of brain-cells I've lost through repeated head bludgeoning of the sledge-hammer variety".

This post has been edited by Lady Elizabeth on Feb 25 2012, 01:30 AM


--------------------
Hobbies:
Needlecraft
Flower Arranging
Cake Decoration
Mutilating psychotic imbeciles
Hairdressing
Art
Romantic Classical Music

RealityCheck is a terrorist, crybaby and poster of anti-scientific crap.
RealityCheck is the sound of one hand wanking.
Top
Robittybob1
Posted: Feb 25 2012, 01:47 AM


Advanced Member
*****

Group: Power Member
Posts: 6588
Joined: 15-October 11

Positive Feedback: 0%
Feedback Score: 0


QUOTE (Lady Elizabeth @ Feb 25 2012, 01:28 AM)
Not so much "coincidence" ..... a tad more;- STFU you delusional ignoramus.

Any retard (you're clear proof of that) can generate this type of profound drivel.

What next?

"If you divide Avogadro's number 6.02 x 10^23 by the size of my willy in femtometers, it equals the exact number of brain-cells I've lost through repeated head bludgeoning of the sledge-hammer variety".

On a more serious note why does Lady Elizabeth have a willy measured in femtometers?
Top
flyingbuttressman
Posted: Feb 25 2012, 01:56 AM


noblesse oblige / nullius in verba
*****

Group: Power Member
Posts: 5823
Joined: 8-June 09

Positive Feedback: 68.66%
Feedback Score: 166


QUOTE (Robittybob1 @ Feb 24 2012, 09:47 PM)
On a more serious note why does Lady Elizabeth have a willy measured in femtometers?

Because she's a lady, duh!


--------------------
"The most exciting phrase to hear in science, the one that heralds new discoveries, is not 'Eureka!' but 'That's funny...' "
- Isaac Asimov

Hall of Shame -

"The days of correct spelling are over."
- Whitewolf4869
Top
Robittybob1
Posted: Feb 25 2012, 04:36 AM


Advanced Member
*****

Group: Power Member
Posts: 6588
Joined: 15-October 11

Positive Feedback: 0%
Feedback Score: 0


QUOTE (flyingbuttressman @ Feb 25 2012, 01:56 AM)
Because she's a lady, duh!

What is a "willy" then if Lady E is a lady? In my neck of the woods a willy is a slang term for a penis which implies maleness not femaleness.
Top
Lady Elizabeth
Posted: Feb 25 2012, 06:24 AM


Dame of the British Empire.
*****

Group: Power Member
Posts: 2259
Joined: 11-December 10

Positive Feedback: 85.71%
Feedback Score: 5


QUOTE (Robittybob1 @ Feb 25 2012, 04:36 AM)
In my neck of the woods

That explains it! ....... RoBillyBob1.


--------------------
Hobbies:
Needlecraft
Flower Arranging
Cake Decoration
Mutilating psychotic imbeciles
Hairdressing
Art
Romantic Classical Music

RealityCheck is a terrorist, crybaby and poster of anti-scientific crap.
RealityCheck is the sound of one hand wanking.
Top
AlexG
Posted: Apr 25 2012, 04:45 AM


Advanced Member
*****

Group: Power Member
Posts: 5652
Joined: 8-September 06

Positive Feedback: 73.91%
Feedback Score: 108


QUOTE (Guest @ Apr 24 2012, 11:33 PM)
See, everyone! rpenner has just deleted flyingbuttressman's post saying he is "looking forward" to the destruction of the record en masse!


Idiot.

You're looking in the wrong thread for that.

http://www.physforum.com/index.php?showtop...ndpost&p=516942


--------------------
Its the way nature is!
If you dont like it, go somewhere else....
To another universe, where the rules are simpler
Philosophically more pleasing, more psychologically easy
Prof Richard Fyenman (1979) .....

God does not roll dice with the Universe" - A. Einstein

"God not only plays dice with the Universe, He rolls them where you can't see" - N. Bohr


Top
AlexG
Posted: Apr 25 2012, 05:03 AM


Advanced Member
*****

Group: Power Member
Posts: 5652
Joined: 8-September 06

Positive Feedback: 73.91%
Feedback Score: 108


QUOTE
It only forces the whistleblower to point out his behaviour in another thread. Idiot.


Speaking about yourself in the third person is a definite sign of mental illness.

But we already knew that.

I personally would be in favor of tracking down every post you've ever made here and deleting them. It's simply taking out the garbage.


--------------------
Its the way nature is!
If you dont like it, go somewhere else....
To another universe, where the rules are simpler
Philosophically more pleasing, more psychologically easy
Prof Richard Fyenman (1979) .....

God does not roll dice with the Universe" - A. Einstein

"God not only plays dice with the Universe, He rolls them where you can't see" - N. Bohr


Top
Mekigal
Posted: Apr 26 2012, 07:26 PM


Advanced Member
*****

Group: Power Member
Posts: 3210
Joined: 22-March 12

Positive Feedback: 0%
Feedback Score: 0


QUOTE (flyingbuttressman @ Feb 25 2012, 12:31 AM)
Oh look, calculator masturbator is back.

interesting metaphor
Top
Mekigal
Posted: Apr 26 2012, 07:31 PM


Advanced Member
*****

Group: Power Member
Posts: 3210
Joined: 22-March 12

Positive Feedback: 0%
Feedback Score: 0


QUOTE (Lady Elizabeth @ Feb 25 2012, 01:28 AM)
Not so much "coincidence" ..... a tad more;- STFU you delusional ignoramus.

Any retard (you're clear proof of that) can generate this type of profound drivel.

What next?

"If you divide Avogadro's number 6.02 x 10^23 by the size of my willy in femtometers, it equals the exact number of brain-cells I've lost through repeated head bludgeoning of the sledge-hammer variety".

is that poetry ? Looks like poetry .
Top
El_Machinae
Posted: Apr 27 2012, 12:49 AM


Advanced Member
*****

Group: Power Member
Posts: 2749
Joined: 17-January 06

Positive Feedback: 87.76%
Feedback Score: 54


The OP didn't include enough information to figure out what they mean, but they also seem to be applying linear relationships to things that are latently exponential.


--------------------
Stanford University's YouTube playlists, cleverly arranged by seminar topic. Free!
http://www.youtube.com/user/StanfordUniversity/playlists
Top

Topic Options

Closed Topic Start new topic Start new poll


 

Terms of use