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> Question about the 9/11 Pentagon incident
H2O
Posted: Oct 15 2009, 06:54 PM


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QUOTE
Not the same thing. Anecdotal evidence is generally defined as being of questionable veracity, unreliable, inaccurate, or hearsay (leading to unreliable conclusions) - once again, something you would know if you did some basic research.


It's simple. Just a little digging shows quite clearly that molten material has be found and documented in the foundations of multiple sites (by multiple sites I mean in the basement of multiple towers).

QUOTE
You inferred the wrong thing from my statement


It doesn't matter how I or anyone in disagreement with you "inferred" what you said. Then support themselves with reference. You will simply arm wave and yell "but I didn't mean it that way" over and over and over like a broken record.

QUOTE
You then started insisting that I was lying or doubling back, even though doing so would have involved making a statement that contradicts what I have said elsewhere on this forum on the matter


Actually that is only one way in which someone can "double back" on what they said. Changing their mind about what a particular statement meant would be another as this would allow them to essentially change their story without becoming hypocritical.

QUOTE
And let me get this straight - your now trying to convince us that a source of high energy fuel stored in the basement of a building is irrelevant to the finding of molten material in the basement of that building?


So first you bring it up.....

QUOTE
This occured in one of the buildings, and it was neither WTC1 or WTC2, IIRC it was a building that had munitions stored in the basement.


Which signifies being the cause for the falsely claimed lone hot spot with molten material

Then when I point that out as being incorrect...

QUOTE
Not just the one and not because of the little bit of small arms ammunition they had on hand.


You continue to stick with the story...

QUOTE
The only place it has been definitively proven that anyhting was molten was in the basement with the small arms munitions.


Now in my previous post I ask...

QUOTE
Oh and just how much small arms ammunition do you think they had?


For which you answer...

QUOTE
No idea, but this question is irrelevant to any of the claims I have made


which is flat out wrong as it is quite relevant. It is also a bit hypocritical.


Would you deny that given enough heat a metal will melt?
Would you also deny (putting the recorded findings for which I linked aside) that if it's hot enough for molten material to exist at one hot spot that molten material is very likely to exist in the other hot spots of equal temperature and size?

I also found the answer to the question....

http://911research.wtc7.net/cache/wtc/anal...groundzero1.htm

QUOTE
The third floor—now largely inaccessible—contained a firing range. More than 1.2 million rounds of ammunition were stored on this level, as was a vault used to store other explosives and weapons. A seizure vault was also on the third floor; it contained evidence (such as drugs, cash and evidence files) seized during Customs operations. Final status: At great personal risk, Customs officials, the FBI and contractor representatives located and removed the criminal evidence from Building 6 during the fourth week of the effort. The ammunition was finally located on Oct. 24, 2001, melted together into large “bullet balls” that were extremely dangerous to handle and dispose of properly (Photo 12). At one point, a discharge of a bullet, due to the immense heat in the area, caused a shrapnel wound to the face of one worker.


Much more than I thought there would be but still didn't even play a significant role in the formation of molten material. They simply fused (clumped) together under the hot conditions they were in within the vault, while most probably cooked off clearly not all did.

Simply put, the molten material that was found was not the ammunition. What you need to do is stop speculating and actually provide a few links that report findings that the molten material was found in the foundation of just one building and was the result of burned ammunition.


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I have received no formal education in much of the subject matter on this forum and have only a high school diploma. What I do know (that would be beyond high school) is what I have learned over the years from reading books, magazines, blogs, forum posts etc. or have seen in documentaries, short clips, etc.

The opinions in my post are my own and do not reflect anyone else's unless referenced and may not be correct.
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Trippy
Posted: Oct 15 2009, 08:35 PM


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QUOTE (H2O @ Oct 16 2009, 07:54 AM)

It's simple.  Just a little digging shows quite clearly that molten material has be found and documented in the foundations of multiple sites (by multiple sites I mean in the basement of multiple towers).

Right, you claim that it requires just a 'little digging' but the only source you produce states that the evidence is anecdotal, and therefore unreliable.

Aside from a photo of a handgun encased in concrete, from the site of building 6 there has been no concrete evidence produced that conclusively demonstrates that there was molten metals anywhere on the site.

QUOTE (H2O @ Oct 16 2009, 07:54 AM)
It doesn't matter how I or anyone in disagreement with you "inferred" what you said.  Then support themselves with reference.  You will simply arm wave and yell "but I didn't mean it that way" over and over and over like a broken record.

Irrelevant speculation.
You inferred wrongly, no amount of whinging on your part will change this.

QUOTE (H2O @ Oct 16 2009, 07:54 AM)
Actually that is only one way in which someone can "double back" on what they said.  Changing their mind about what a particular statement meant would be another as this would allow them to essentially change their story without becoming hypocritical.

You're dodging.

QUOTE (H2O @ Oct 16 2009, 07:54 AM)

QUOTE

And let me get this straight - your now trying to convince us that a source of high energy fuel stored in the basement of a building is irrelevant to the finding of molten material in the basement of that building?


So first you bring it up.....
QUOTE

This occured in one of the buildings, and it was neither WTC1 or WTC2, IIRC it was a building that had munitions stored in the basement.

Which signifies being the cause for the falsely claimed lone hot spot with molten material

Then when I point that out as being incorrect...
QUOTE

Not just the one and not because of the little bit of small arms ammunition they had on hand.


You continue to stick with the story...

QUOTE

The only place it has been definitively proven that anyhting was molten was in the basement with the small arms munitions.


Now in my previous post I ask...

QUOTE

Oh and just how much small arms ammunition do you think they had?

For which you answer...
QUOTE

No idea, but this question is irrelevant to any of the claims I have made


which is flat out wrong as it is quite relevant. It is also a bit hypocritical.

Firstly, what precisely are you trying to say here?
I find your posting style is irrational, poorly laid out, and difficult to follow.
And as far as this goes:
QUOTE (H2O @ Oct 16 2009, 07:54 AM)

QUOTE

This occured in one of the buildings, and it was neither WTC1 or WTC2, IIRC it was a building that had munitions stored in the basement.

Which signifies being the cause for the falsely claimed lone hot spot with molten material.

Allow me to repeat, you wrongly inferred what I was referring to (because I have previously aknowledged, my post was unclear).
Get over it.
Move on.
Or show yourself to be yet another in a long line of paranoid trolls.

QUOTE (H2O @ Oct 16 2009, 07:54 AM)
Would you deny that given enough heat a metal will melt?

This statement is just plainly stupid, and does not follow from anything i've said (directly, or inderectly).

QUOTE (H2O @ Oct 16 2009, 07:54 AM)
Would you also deny (putting the recorded findings for which I linked aside) that if it's hot enough for molten material to exist at one hot spot that molten material is very likely to exist in the other hot spots of equal temperature and size?

That would depend on the molten material in question in the first place.

QUOTE (H2O @ Oct 16 2009, 07:54 AM)
I also found the answer to the question....

http://911research.wtc7.net/cache/wtc/anal...groundzero1.htm

Good for you.
You found an answer to a question on a point you consider irrelevant on a pro conspiracy theory website.

Would you like a gold star?

QUOTE (H2O @ Oct 16 2009, 07:54 AM)
Much more than I thought there would be but still didn't even play a significant role in the formation of molten material.  They simply fused (clumped) together under the hot conditions they were in within the vault, while most probably cooked off clearly not all did.

This is, at best nonsensical.
What you're saying is "Because the ammunition got so hot that it fused, it could not possibly have been responsible for the heat".

So... When I turn my oven on, if I touch the glowing thing, I won't get burned, because the fact that it's hot means that the heat couldn't possible have come from it?

No wait, that's not what you're saying. You're obviously saying that because some rounds still had powder in them, all rounds must still have had powder in them. But that's a logical fallacy as well - by your logic, because some animals that have four legs and a tail are cats, all animals with 4 legs and a tail are cats...

But, congratulations on helping me prove my point, you've just demonstrated that there was evidence of molten material in WTC 6, and that (some of) this molten material related to the amunition.

I thought you just got done saying that the molten material at WTC 6 had nothing to do with the ammunition.

QUOTE (H2O @ Oct 16 2009, 07:54 AM)
Simply put, the molten material that was found was not the ammunition.  What you need to do is stop speculating and actually provide a few links that report findings that the molten material was found in the foundation of just one building and was the result of burned ammunition.

Why? You just provided the evidence for me.
Or do you think that the bullet balls formed spontaneously without liquification?


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Trippy
Posted: Oct 15 2009, 08:47 PM


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And if you must know the honest to god truth regarding the post that you continue to piss and whine about...

If I remember correctly, on that occasion I was time poor, and I failed to take the time to proof read it and ensure that it said exactly what I wanted to say.

In fact it wasn't until your second complaint bitching about it that I went back, reread it, and realized that I had cocked up when I made the post.

No deceit.
No attempts at misleading people.
Just a simple, honest mistake, and one that I have endeavoured to correct.

But like the whine little bitch-with-a-bone that you are, your so focused on your crusade for truth, and have deluded yourself so completely that I must be lying about something that you fail to consider the alternatives.

You're so convinced of your own hype and propaganda, that anyone who opposes your view MUST either be stupid, lying, or both.


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Observe. Predict. Confirm.
Schroedingers Voter: I'm both Left Wing and Right Wing until you ask me a specific question.
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H2O
Posted: Oct 19 2009, 01:15 PM


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QUOTE
What you're saying is "Because the ammunition got so hot that it fused, it could not possibly have been responsible for the heat".


QUOTE
So... When I turn my oven on, if I touch the glowing thing, I won't get burned, because the fact that it's hot means that the heat couldn't possible have come from it?


It's a matter of...the turkey in the oven is hot because the oven is heating it not the other way around. The existence of still live rounds is indicative that the rounds were either A - Not exposed to the heat long enough for all the rounds to cook off, B - Not exposed to heat hot enough to reach all the rounds and bring them to their cooking point, or most likely C - Both A and B.

As for whining...

QUOTE
You inferred wrongly


QUOTE
You're dodging


QUOTE
you wrongly inferred what I was referring to


QUOTE
This statement is just plainly stupid, and does not follow from anything i've said




--------------------
I have received no formal education in much of the subject matter on this forum and have only a high school diploma. What I do know (that would be beyond high school) is what I have learned over the years from reading books, magazines, blogs, forum posts etc. or have seen in documentaries, short clips, etc.

The opinions in my post are my own and do not reflect anyone else's unless referenced and may not be correct.
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Trippy
Posted: Oct 19 2009, 06:02 PM


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QUOTE (H2O @ Oct 20 2009, 02:15 AM)
It's a matter of...the turkey in the oven is hot because the oven is heating it not the other way around. The existence of still live rounds is indicative that the rounds were either A - Not exposed to the heat long enough for all the rounds to cook off, B - Not exposed to heat hot enough to reach all the rounds and bring them to their cooking point, or most likely C - Both A and B.

:Yawn:

Get a new trick, this one's boring.

And now you think correcting an error on someone elses part is whining?

Oh boy.


--------------------
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H2O
Posted: Oct 19 2009, 06:05 PM


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QUOTE
And now you think correcting an error on someone elses part is whining?


If that's the case then talk about the pot and the *** kettle...


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I have received no formal education in much of the subject matter on this forum and have only a high school diploma. What I do know (that would be beyond high school) is what I have learned over the years from reading books, magazines, blogs, forum posts etc. or have seen in documentaries, short clips, etc.

The opinions in my post are my own and do not reflect anyone else's unless referenced and may not be correct.
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Trippy
Posted: Oct 19 2009, 06:12 PM


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QUOTE (H2O @ Oct 20 2009, 07:05 AM)

If that's the case then talk about the pot and the *** kettle...

Yeah, because that would make truthers such a whiney bunch wouldn't it.


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cave et aude
Observe. Predict. Confirm.
Schroedingers Voter: I'm both Left Wing and Right Wing until you ask me a specific question.
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giuseppe
Posted: Oct 20 2009, 07:31 PM


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The pentagon was another false flag operation orchestrated by the CIA and the bush regime officials , we need to expose the cover-up organised by FEMA NIST and the media

This post has been edited by giuseppe on Oct 20 2009, 07:32 PM
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rpenner
Posted: Oct 20 2009, 08:05 PM


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What was orchestrated?
How was it orchestrated?
How will you expose anything when you are working from your preconceptions and fitting the facts and claims of facts to them and discarding facts which do not fit your preconceptions?


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H2O
Posted: Oct 22 2009, 02:17 PM


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QUOTE
The pentagon was another false flag operation orchestrated by the CIA and the bush regime officials , we need to expose the cover-up organised by FEMA NIST and the media


The only thing that I remember hearing is that security tapes from nearby buildings that could see what happened were taken. Then a few frames were released.

Now I haven't done any digging on that since and it was a while back so I don't know of anything that may have happened since (like the release of the entire footage).


--------------------
I have received no formal education in much of the subject matter on this forum and have only a high school diploma. What I do know (that would be beyond high school) is what I have learned over the years from reading books, magazines, blogs, forum posts etc. or have seen in documentaries, short clips, etc.

The opinions in my post are my own and do not reflect anyone else's unless referenced and may not be correct.
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