Making the Case for The Bible w Scientific evidenc, The Bible = 21st century Science

Can you tell me how much nonsense is in evolution? Mathematically speaking, of course.

SoLoved

I guess I'm just a piss poor teacher.

Actually a dog, wolf, fish and chicken all share quite a bit in common, so to say they are nothing alike means you are paying attention to the way they LOOK, and not the many things they have in common, many of which ARE NOT OBVIOUS, based upon their EXTERNAL APPEARANCE.

It helps if you start with STRUCTURE.

First of all what they have in common is they are all Eukaroytes

This makes them distinctly different from bacteria, so that's actually a biggy, since there is more bacterial life on this planet (mass & numbers) then there are Eukaroytes.

The next thing they have in common is they are all Metazoa.

Another biggy, cause this means that again this group is in the smaller of the two main divisions of multicellular life, and as explained in the previous post, all of these share a unique cellular structure that allows for them to also develop other shared traits like Skin and bones and muscles.

Bilateria (bilateral, meaning two sides, all the following animals will have this orientation)

Huge biggy, that again all in this group share, they all have a right side and a left side and they are symmetrical. Leaving things like worms, jellyfish, starfish etc behind. So what is big about this, well bilateria led to mobility, and what can be more mobile than a chicken, fish, dog or wolf? Don't put the worms down though, they did develop something our group all shares (and for which I am particularly grateful), they developed the anus, so now the mouth could specialize on eating, not. ..!

Chordata (all the following animals will have spinal chords)

Hoo Boy, is this a biggy, and once again, something they all share, they have a spinal chord, which as it turns out works well with that mobility thingy, in order to coordinate those appendages that get controlled by the spinal chord. This nifty capability leaves the largest group of land species behind, the insects and them things with shells that are good with drawn butter.

Craniata (all the following animals will have bony skulls)

Looky here, another thing they all share, bony skulls, handy for placing eyes, noses, teeth or beaks. And while there are a number of Chordates that don't have skulls, you wouldn't want to know any (hagfishes, lamprys that sort of thing)

Vertebrata (all the following animals will have backbones)

And once again all of the animals in our group have this trait as well, backbones, real handy for that mobility thing and protects the ever more valuable spinal chord.

Gnathostomata (all of the following animals will have bony Jaws)

Oh my, still all here. All got bony jaws (else you couldn't "Fish")

Terrestrial Vertebrates (all of the following will have digits)

Well FINALLY, we have to let go of our fishy friend. Well maybe, was that a LOBE FINNED FISH?, cause if it is then WOW, he's still with us, cause a number of LOBE FINNED FISH can live on land (ok, not long, but they can use them lobes to walk to the next pond over, if the one they are in is getting a tad dry. Ah, let him stay one more round, what you say.

Amniota (all the following will have an "amniotic" egg)

Ok, that's it, Fishies gone, this ONE change is what REALLY separates the fish from the rest of the pack. They can't lay eggs that survive out of water. They never developed the amniotic egg, hence its water requirement, cause even if you might walk from pond to pond, if it ain't too far, you gotta still lay your eggs in the water ifn you a fish.

But now we are back at the point I made earlier.

At THIS POINT in the evolutionary path, those mud skipping fishes had actually developed a number of changes before they went hop, skipping and jumping to the next pond over, at no time would you not consider them a fish. In fact, if you go to your local aquarium store, they will sell you a couple to keep your guppies company.

BUT, in the environment these FISH lived in, it DID get a tad dry from time to time, so Natural Selection helped to create fish who had skin that was not quite so permeable, thus they didn't dry out on their short stroll, or even if they were living in mostly mud. They also got some subtle changes to their gill systems that made them work better if they were at least moist, didn't really need water going through them, turns out regular fish gills work if just moist, these guys just didn't get damaged by exposure to air (as quickly)

So then nature provide one more handy adaption, they, like fish laid eggs, but again, it would get a tad dry now and again, so selection helped to select members with slightly thicker outer walls for their eggs, cause they survived the occasional dry spell. Given time these got to right leathery, allowing them to actually just be buried in moist soil.

Ok, go back to the first post.

Cause this is where the Birds and the Dogs/Wolves parted company.

The bird group developed hard shell eggs and thus could leave the shore completely. The ancestors of the dogs/wolves, never got to the point that they could actually bury their eggs, when it got dry they stayed on top of them, keeping them moist. Not as effective maybe, which might be why this group sweated, cause it was the sweat that both kept their skin wet while they mud skipped, but kept their eggs moist during dry spells. These are the kin for the Wolfs, and the Dog and you guessed it US.

That story would take another hour easy.

You figure it out.

So, now do you think it is a true statement when you say "they are nothing alike",

If you actually look at it, they have a LOT in common, they have MORE in common than they have differences, when you view the mass of species that they are all DIFFERENT FROM IN THE EXACT SAME WAY.

But of course, your "COMMON SENSE" tells you that a Chicken, Dog and Fish are "NOTHING ALIKE", but your common sense is WRONG.

I will give you they look different, quite different in fact, but if you go BACK to the point where fish separated from terrestrial vertebrates, you will find that the first terrestrial vertebrate looked REMARKABLY SIMILAR to his Mud Skipper "Cousin", now of course, over time, other cousins of the "mud skipper that didn't come back" adapted to this new place called LAND, and as they did, they did start to look less and less like ol Muddy,

Similarly when you see the original mammals, I KNOW you are going to say, hell that's one of them DINOSAURS, but its not.

Meet your cousin (many many times removed)



Dimetrodon - ancestor of the mammals belonged to the family called Pelycosaurs, which had both mammal and reptile characteristics. Dimetrodon preceded the earliest dinosaurs by more than 40 million years but physically it looked a lot like one. It is often referred to as mammal-like reptile, based on characteristics of the skull and dentition. Dimetrodon was a dominant carnivore, the largest one of the Permian period. It was a predacious reptile that was on the top of the food chain during the early Permian.
This pelycosaur possessed a spectacular sail on its back, supported by long, bony spines, each of which grew out of a separate spinal vertebra. The sail was probably an early experiment in controlling body temperature. It is believed that the sail absorbed the heat of the sun and warmed the blood and body. It warmed up early after sunrise and cooled off more efficiently during the heat of the day. It may have also been used for mating and dominance rituals and making it look much larger than it was to predators. Dimetrodon had a large skull with two types of teeth (sharp canines and shearing teeth). It was probably quite slow because it walked on four side-sprawling legs.


Now meet his cousin:



Ah, no moist eggs for this one, got leathery eggs, he IS a dinosaur, and his closest living cousin is a Crock. (Which is why of course they TASTE like Chicken)

Now meet his cousin



What do you know, hard boiled eggs, I mean hard shelled eggs, say hello to the ancestor of the chicken.

So here are the three closest spaced ancestors I could find pictures of for our CHICKEN and DOG/WOLF, I through in a Crocodile even though you didn't, cause they ALL branched off at roughly the same time and that was roughly after ol Muddy decided to stay on land (lower taxes!) (PS: there are even closer ancestors then these, I just don't have the time to hunt down their pics, these are close enough for our purposes though)

So now HOPEFULLY (and I do mean hopefully) this will make it a bit more clear, when new LINES of evolution DO form (and no they are not common considering the MILLIONS of species that exist) they do so from a COMMON ancestor. So the changes that create these different lines are SMALL, but even though SMALL, the changes can have DRAMATIC impact. Gotta keep eggs moist leads down a path that leads to fur, lactation, and finally doing away with the eggshell all together.
Burying the leathery egg solves so many problems that while species diverted they all kept this quite effective solution.
The hard shell egg, heck it could go Anywhere, even up in a tree, which was good, because you COULDN'T bury it, it needed to BREATHE, so it had to be protected, which led to nests and putting nests in out of reach places, and then jumping down from those hard to read places, and worse, you had to keep the damn things warm which led to sitting on them and furry scales around the feet, hell feathers and hey, they did help getting down from them high places. Who'd a thunk it.

Arthur

Just compare the quality of soloved's comment to arthur... even with all that scientific terminology, arthur, you will never convince soloved... JUST BECAUSE he/she is blinded by religion. Isn't it funny how 1000 years ago, no one understood at all the motion of the planets, and therefore accepted the church's hypothesis of geocentricity as given, and now we know for a fact, irrefutably, that it is truly heliocentric? (you can extend that argument a million times with a million different examples of church ridiculousness) The piss poor quality of creationism's arguments, which cannot be proven, cannot hope to stand up to the LOGICAL progression of evolution. By the way, I believe evolution is the most beautiful answer to the question of where we come from. Think about it. we are perfection that came through steps, not through some process akin to making instant soup.

SO, in conclusion, it saddens me that people are still blinded by religion... but I hope one day they will see logic in this world, and behave accordingly.

I love your sense of humor.

I would've loved to have had someone like you as a science teacher.

I love your sense of humor.

I would've loved to have had someone like you as a science teacher.

Thanks, that means a lot, that was always my plan growing up, because I had such inspiring teachers myself.

Life events changed the plan.

Arthur

I've following this strange, convoluted conversation and I think I have something to add regarding the scientific case for the bible, though I think I know precisely what the response is going to be:

Doesn't the bible call bats "fowls"?
Lev 11:13-19 And these are they which ye shall have in abomination among the fowls ; they shall not be eaten, they are an abomination: the eagle, and the ossifrage, and the ospray, And the vulture, and the kite after his kind;
Every raven after his kind; And the owl, and the night hawk, and the cuckow, and the hawk after his kind, And the little owl, and the cormorant, and the great owl,
And the swan, and the pelican, and the gier eagle, And the stork, the heron after her kind, and the lapwing, and the bat.
(notice how God specifically names many types of actual birds, then lumps the bat in at the end, without any disclaimer to notify us that it's actually a mammal)
See also Deut 14:11-18

Doesn't the bible use language that could be interpreted to accept evolution?
Genesis 1:11 - And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree.
Genesis 1:24 - And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so.

The bible states that all animals (before the fall of Adam around 6,000 years ago) were herbivores:
Genesis 1:30 And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so.

Job 39:13-17 and Lam 4:3 mistakenly states that ostriches are cruel, inattentive parents, when they actually watch over their eggs (and chicks) with great care.

Apparently rabbits (and coneys) are ruminants, but we know that isn't true!
Lev 11:5-6 And the coney, because he cheweth the cud , but divideth not the hoof; he is unclean unto you.
And the hare, because he cheweth the cud, but divideth not the hoof; he is unclean unto you.
(see also Deut 14:7-8)

Job 30:37-41 has a fascinating treatise on how to regulate the pattern of coats on cattle: have them conceive in front of wooden rods painted with stripes! Does that work with humans as well?

Lev.11:21-23 Tells us insects like locusts only have four feet!

For flat earth theorists:
Psalms 33:13-14 The LORD looketh from heaven; he beholdeth all the sons of men.
From the place of his habitation he looketh upon all the inhabitants of the earth.
Daniel 2:35 Then was the iron, the clay, the brass, the silver, and the gold, broken to pieces together, and became like the chaff of the summer threshingfloors; and the wind carried them away, that no place was found for them: and the stone that smote the image became a great mountain, and filled the whole earth.
Daniel 4:10-11, 20 Thus were the visions of mine head in my bed; I saw, and behold a tree in the midst of the earth, and the height thereof was great.
The tree grew, and was strong, and the height thereof reached unto heaven, and the sight thereof to the end of all the earth,
The tree that thou sawest, which grew, and was strong, whose height reached unto the heaven, and the sight thereof to all the earth;

Sorry for the long post, and thanks for your time!

I love your sense of humor.

I would've loved to have had someone like you as a science teacher.

Absolutely, it's like reading a story Very enlightening and interesting, Adoucette.

It was an interesting post. I wonder what God thinks about seedless fruits we have created.

Greg

0112 Fibonacci
0000
2134 Lucas
2246

add 2 across - 40 columns
add 3 vertical - 34 rows

More of Greg's weird math

Column 40 (4) first number starts with 63 last number is a 17 digit number starting with a 17 and my critics will So Love this twist the last number has a 5150 in it. Oh this table will also show an error in excel 2000 at 15 or 16 digits. There is some fun stuff in it the year chlorine was named element 17 group 17. Joan of Arc birth date. But what I found most interesting was in column 12 the day my mother was born has i think 1749 17 mine 9 sister 12 mother all in 4 or April doubly interesting as we, none of us are not related by blood. BTW Happy Halloween. There is usually a duel 17 in the stuff I find.

153 x 63 = 9639 63 between 9 (the last digit) mirroring dl 90 296 90 2+9+6=17
oddly enough when I was adopted my family's home was 6363 Gross Street now I live on Morse (code) across from 3636 - odd just noticed a 63 within a 3+6 or 9
I see 90 as the Last and the first also using base 17 ( most of my stuff is 17 and base 17) 90 base 17 to b10 is 153 b17 to b14 is AD now called CE
one more useless bit of data the house my adopted mother grew up in was 463 second ave and her name is Virginia since Hebrew has no vowels you can strike the "ia" so you could say she was a Virgin before an after my birth. Virgin-ia that is. She was born ON 4/12 and I was born AT 4:12 am which by some time standard is 12:12 universal time or some such thing that 4 12's mirroring the 4-12


153 x 17 x 17 44217 4 and 4 and two 17's (IT'S VISUAL)
all digits except 1 & 7
2345689 x 153 = 358890417 Visually 3+5=8 88 90 417
remove the 9 as it is symbolic of the last
234568 x 153 = 35888904 35 888 90 4
taken from the missing 17 in Phi 1.6()18 V I S U A L

If you have a strong ability to process visual-spatial and mathematical information. These skills combined with your strengths in logic are what make you a Visual Mathematician.
Sorry this just started out as a quick I liked your post
cut and paste from Quote

Sorry for the long post, and thanks for your time!

Dear Iesous,

Would you be so kind to be interested in the profession of numerology? Your name could tell you what kind of person you are, whether you're just lucky or plain stupid! It could also tell you when you will die, whether you'll go to heaven or hell etc... etc...

I = 9
E = 5
S = 1
O = 6
U = 3
S = 1

Total = 9+5+1+6+3+1
....... = 25
....... = 7
....... = Idiotic believer of numerology. Would make a wonderful profession in said field.

From the Just Numerology Understanding Training School (Just NUTS!)

That is some of the weirdest freakist stuff i have ever read in my entire life!

- Amok

A 417 digit Prime starting with 1700 ending with 071
Elliptic Curve Method factorization during test
For X = 4000001000007000006000003 (41763)
F:(X) (x^17+8)/101
is a 417 digit Prime starting with 1700 ending with 071
Testing program written by Dario Alejandro Alpern
1700984 3761486301 6448795316 8192988744 2920038622 5103838861 5380641278 7091517248 6778746439 7236723496 2263246574 6682102219 1808116602 9236145637 9448322798 6011386946 2855394443 7528577740 5829775268 8672164246 8545501963 2987345619 3101266291 6437812113 3209319829 1835962623 0677704812 4478088252 4824666233 9022242828 5862736532 9488347370 5271367224 2535998612 9032289876 7972763313 3232393928 1988107478 5430837912 9176954086 1306745407 6887833071
is unknown


Testing primality of 170098437614863016448795316819298874429200386
225103838861538064127870915172486778746439723672349622632465746682
102219180811660292361456379448322798601138694628553944437528577740
582977526886721642468545501963298734561931012662916437812113320931
982918359626230677704812447808825248246662339022242828586273653294
883473705271367224253599861290322898767972763313323239392819881074
785430837912917695408613067454076887833071 (417 digits)
APRT-CLE progress: P = 2, Q = 41 (4%)


Elapsed time: 0d 0h 1m 7s
83812 modular multiplications have been done

170098437614863016448795316819298874429200386225103838861538064127870915172486778746439723672349622632465746682102219180
811660292361456379448322798601138694628553944437528577740582977526886721642468545501963298734561931012662916437812113320
931982918359626230677704812447808825248246662339022242828586273653294883473705271367224253599861290322898767972763313323
239392819881074785430837912917695408613067454076887833071 is Prime
Numerology yea right this is a prime number how many ways would you like it to show 4/17

L8er (LL)

Are you actually getting the theme while these other yahoo's can't keep tract of the many ways I am using one core number and groups.
for primes put common terms like 345 triangls in a 17 like 13457 prime
13147 a 314 in a 17 prime 190296907 dl in a 17 prime E (using 6 digits) in 17 prime lots more. It's cool but freaky April 17 is the 107 day of the year put a 289 or 17^2 in the 107 102897 convert to base 17 13g0d thats her number 1 3 and I put her before me.

nite
GRG

Iesous

Try to come back to Earth, Greg, at least long enough to explain to us, JUST WHAT THE HELL THIS NUMBERS JUNK HAS TO DO WITH REALITY, YOU FREAKING LOON.

Grumpy

Ponder on this one. If the bible is an accurate recording of history why are there no other records of the stories told in the bible??

Get the theme? yes I got the theme, that you apparently have a Lot of time on your hands to play around with numbers. All that number theory is great and all, but does it actually mean anything? Does it have any effect in the real world at all? Will it ever effect My Life? I highly doubt any of the above can be answered with a Yes.

Build some legos or something, at least those have substance.

- Amok