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> Does Ai (artificial Intelligence) Concern You
jadams123
Posted: Aug 19 2011, 08:30 PM


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I don't know about anyone else, but I am concerned about how hard people are working with artificial intelligence. I am far from an alarmist, but I would think that working on making machines intelligent is a very serious mistake. As far as logic goes, humans have a tendency to be the least logical creatures. I believe that lack of logic would cause machines to wonder what our use is and probably choose to annihilate us.

So anyone out there that is working on the technology might want to keep that in mind while working on their project. Build in a kill switch and make sure it isnít documented anywhere so the machines donít know it exists.
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MjolnirPants
Posted: Aug 20 2011, 02:55 PM


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QUOTE (jadams123 @ Aug 19 2011, 03:30 PM)
I don't know about anyone else, but I am concerned about how hard people are working with artificial intelligence.  I am far from an alarmist, but I would think that working on making machines intelligent is a very serious mistake.
Umm, that's the very definition of an alarmist.

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As far as logic goes, humans have a tendency to be the least logical creatures.
The least logical among what group?

QUOTE
I believe that lack of logic would cause machines to wonder what our use is and probably choose to annihilate us. 
Ummm, we can build more machines. We can repair machines. We can design new kinds of machines. It's faaaaaaaar more likely that any 'rise of the machines' would see them trying to annihilate mosquitoes.

QUOTE
So anyone out there that is working on the technology might want to keep that in mind while working on their project.  Build in a kill switch and make sure it isnít documented anywhere so the machines donít know it exists.
Don't offer advice on a subject you obviously know nothing about. It makes you look like a douche.


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Capracus
Posted: Aug 22 2011, 03:30 AM


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QUOTE (jadams123 @ Aug 19 2011, 08:30 PM)
So anyone out there that is working on the technology might want to keep that in mind while working on their project.  Build in a kill switch and make sure it isnít documented anywhere so the machines donít know it exists.

If we only had this options with human beings, say for example Hitler or Saddam Hussein.
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jfields03
Posted: Sep 5 2011, 07:28 PM


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The premise is always terrific for movies. And as far as logic goes, I agree with Capracus' statement, too bad we can't get rid of the real human creeps out there.
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El_Machinae
Posted: Oct 9 2011, 02:53 PM


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I think the broad premise is reasonable, that we should ensure the first AIs are functionally benign. I'd give a decent probability that they would be, because we're not overly stupid.

This is one of the problems that the think tank, the Singularity Institute, worry about


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soundhertz
Posted: Oct 11 2011, 03:52 PM


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Benign is a conscious choice. It won't exist, because consciousness does not exist in programs, regardless of how cute or scary the robotic housing appears. Dr. Penrose has commented about this, and although he is not giving exact definitions of just what consciousness is, he is saying that whatever consciousness is, it is not replicable non-biologically. Can he be wrong? Sure. Is he? Not by current knowledge. And since he's demonstrated a better handle of what reality is than (possibly arguably) anyone else, I'd trust him over anyone else.

Now, if somehow we someday manage to build biologically-based AI, there will then be the considerations that Kurzweil is (not very) worried about. They will all still have off/on switches, and they cannot create more energy than the the energy we give them. No lightning out of the metal arms as you go for the switch;)

jadams123, if you really want to educate yourself in this subject, delve into the work of MIT roboticist professor Cynthia Breazel. You'll get quite an education.


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El_Machinae
Posted: Oct 11 2011, 06:40 PM


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Well, consciousness needs more than just a program. It needs interaction with the real world, ideally through multi-modal sensor input. But I don't see any reason why this cannot exist non-biologically.


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soundhertz
Posted: Oct 15 2011, 02:47 PM


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There is something about evolution that gives Life an intention to continue, to the point of defending that continuance of both self and species. A squirrel will attack a wolverine if it is cornered. We may not have delineated exactly why this intent to continue is, but scientists have postulated it is ingrained in genetics, which AI will never have as it's base. It's base is what we give AI to work with.

That which makes us up, down to the smallest single biological unit, intends to continue; all we are, from the single units that we begin from, to the groupings of units that cooperate together, to the coalescing of multiple systems, all the way up to our single perception of our own self as a single incorporated system, has as it's base, the absolute need to continue, in order to function as it's raison d'etre. IOW, defense of self is a requirement for the mechanism of evolution, from each cell body to the body that we call 'me'. We cannot give AI the same mechanism; it has an entirely different mechanism, from the ground up. Perhaps when the day comes that another Einstein discovers the 'why' of genetic predisposition to actively defend itself down to the smallest unit of Life, much more will also come to light.

...and no, I did not mean that in an ID way.

This post has been edited by soundhertz on Oct 15 2011, 03:28 PM


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Robittybob1
Posted: Oct 15 2011, 07:00 PM


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I like this forum for you seem to be allowed to be rather whacko and still get away with it. Yesterday I was permanently banned from the Physics Forum for being a "Crackpot".

I get the feeling I am going to fit right in here on the Physforum!

Well here goes!

Years ago I had a dream about this very topic, and in it I was told. "As God made man in his image and has since never succeeded in controlling him, so men will make machines in their imagine and they will get out of control too."

The Kill switch in my dream did not work.
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flyingbuttressman
Posted: Oct 15 2011, 08:36 PM


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QUOTE (Robittybob1 @ Oct 15 2011, 03:00 PM)
I like this forum for you seem to be allowed to be rather whacko and still get away with it. Yesterday I was permanently banned from the Physics Forum for being a "Crackpot".

I get the feeling I am going to fit right in here on the Physforum!

Please kill me now.


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soundhertz
Posted: Oct 16 2011, 05:05 PM


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Since the thread effectively is. It's just the beginning, can feel it in me bones


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Robittybob1
Posted: Oct 16 2011, 05:19 PM


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QUOTE (soundhertz @ Oct 16 2011, 05:05 PM)
Since the thread effectively is.  It's just the beginning, can feel it in me bones

Maybe they could use a portion of your brain and connect it to electrodes and wired into the computer!

Did you see that? They had taken a bit of brain tissue and connect it to a computer, so the computer would learn how the brain responds to things.

This post has been edited by Robittybob1 on Oct 16 2011, 05:22 PM
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Capracus
Posted: Oct 19 2011, 10:50 AM


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QUOTE (soundhertz @ Oct 15 2011, 02:47 PM)
There is something about evolution that gives Life an intention to continue, to the point of defending that continuance of both self and species.  A squirrel will attack a wolverine if it is cornered.  We may not have delineated exactly why this intent to continue is, but scientists have postulated it is ingrained in genetics, which AI will never have as it's base.  It's base is what we give AI to work with.

What evolution presents to us is the genetic designs that succeeded. When we examine the short term evolution of organisms with high generational turnover we witness the multitudes of success and failure in the course of life, itís not all intended to continue. The same can be said of the life of technological devices, the ones that maintain their systemic utility continue on.

As for issue of consciousness being a quality exclusive to biology, that proposition remains unsettled until we can determine what consciousness actually is. It may be that consciousness results from the modulation of some yet to be determined cosmic field, where all configurations of matter have their own unique resonate effect.
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El_Machinae
Posted: Oct 19 2011, 12:04 PM


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I think we know a great deal more about consciousness than people realise, it's just that we don't spend enough time educating ourselves regarding the fairly massive strides in different fields. Edit: but, that said, natural selection will select for consciousnesses that seek to protect themselves. It's true that with AI, we needn't have this instinct. This would mean that the AI is more likely to self-sacrifice to meet its other goals (so, it would be good if those goals were good for us!)

I obviously think that we still need massively more amounts of research, though. I was looking at funding agencies regarding this topic, and I think that Parkinson's research probably has the most synergy with these questions. If you donate to a Parkinson's research foundation, the money will be used to help people but also crack science regarding cognition.

It's tough for the 'common man' to directly contribute to progress in these types of fields, but the whole process would move much faster if we could get more people helping. Society spends relatively little on this type of research, but that means that our donations are actually a significant contribution.

AI might concern me, but brain-interface technology (like with deep brain stimulation for Parkinson's) certainly looks promising

This post has been edited by El_Machinae on Oct 19 2011, 12:05 PM


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Robittybob1
Posted: Oct 19 2011, 04:28 PM


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QUOTE (El_Machinae @ Oct 19 2011, 12:04 PM)
I think we know a great deal more about consciousness than people realise, it's just that we don't spend enough time educating ourselves regarding the fairly massive strides in different fields. Edit: but, that said, natural selection will select for consciousnesses that seek to protect themselves. It's true that with AI, we needn't have this instinct. This would mean that the AI is more likely to self-sacrifice to meet its other goals (so, it would be good if those goals were good for us!)

I obviously think that we still need massively more amounts of research, though. I was looking at funding agencies regarding this topic, and I think that Parkinson's research probably has the most synergy with these questions. If you donate to a Parkinson's research foundation, the money will be used to help people but also crack science regarding cognition.

It's tough for the 'common man' to directly contribute to progress in these types of fields, but the whole process would move much faster if we could get more people helping. Society spends relatively little on this type of research, but that means that our donations are actually a significant contribution.

AI might concern me, but brain-interface technology (like with deep brain stimulation for Parkinson's) certainly looks promising

Good post El_Machinae. I support the Neurological foundation of NZ.
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