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> Does God Exist?
synthsin75
Posted: Feb 22 2012, 02:29 AM


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QUOTE (Capracus @ Feb 21 2012, 08:04 AM)
No, it’s your understanding that’s lacking. The quantum states themselves are indeterminate in regards to measurement. Any quantum measurement is expressed as a probability value that is dependent on a given state. The probability value of a property could theoretically range from 0 to 100 percent for a single measurement. When measuring paired properties those values are inversely related. By measuring a particle’s position you consequently alter its properties in regards to a successive measurement of momentum.

Not even close. Quantum states are only indeterminate UNTIL you make a measurement. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Measurement_i...tative_overview
QUOTE (^)
The expected result of the measurement is in general described by a probability distribution that specifies the likelihoods that the various possible results will be obtained.


"Expected result" is precisely the distinction I made between predicted measurement and actual measurement. An expected result is what you can predict the outcome(s) to be beforehand. A measurement is an actual value you read off of a measuring device for a single outcome. Do you somehow expect to see an indeterminate value given by a measuring device? What on Earth would that look like?!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wave_function_collapse
QUOTE (^)
In simplified terms, it is the reduction of the physical possibilities into a single possibility as seen by an observer.


IOW, an actual measurement reduces the probability for the various outcomes that will statistically occur throughout a large enough number of measurements to the single outcome you read off of a measuring device.


But at least you do understand that measuring one of an uncertainty related pair of properties does indeed alter the subsequent measurement of the other. This is exactly why I've been telling you all along that the uncertainty principle only restricts knows those two properties at the same time.

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QM has been demonstrated to be functionally sufficient to describe behaviors at the quantum level, just as classical mechanics has been shown to be satisfactory at the macro level. As further “hidden” states of existence are revealed, no doubt alternate branches of physics will evolve to attempt to effectively explain them.


Still doesn't justify your assertion of a hidden variable theory.

QUOTE
The blend of classical and quantum mechanics is an example of the theoretical deterministic trending towards the theoretical stochastic. When deterministic relationships are apparent in a process it’s labeled as such. When those relationships are not apparent, we bring in terms like stochastic or random to explain our deficiency in perception.

Indeterminacy is a function of our perception, not necessarily reality. We have many examples of action begetting action, i.e., determinism. When conditions are such that our limited senses and comprehension do not allow perception of causal action, why is it reasonable to assume its non existence?


There's no evidence of this. The whole point of quantum indeterminacy is that a single initial condition actually does have more than one possible outcome. This has been exhaustively verified.

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Subjectivity is the nature of our reality. Matter is subject to the rules of its environment. Individual and cultural behavior are subject to their respective collective experience and knowledge. If "will" were independent of these factors, then we wouldn’t see distinct ordered patterns of behavior, it would appear to be random. For example, Mother Teresa would be a saint one day and a serial killer the next. Her fate would not be decided by her inherent personality and life experience, but instead by her random will.


Just because you find a particle at a specific location doesn't mean that you will find it there the next time, only that you know the odds of finding it there. Same with free will. History and influences determine the probability spread of possible actions, but cannot determine the specific action in any given situation other than the odds. The individual is free to choose within a probabilistic spread of actions consistent with their personality.

Choices, like everything else in a finite, closed system, are constrained by the choices and interactions of other people and things. That doesn't necessarily exclude stochastic processes or free will, nor does it make any free will random.


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Cwilm
Posted: Mar 24 2012, 01:53 AM


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The fact that essentially the beginning began with absolutely nothing, nothing else can explain the beginning other than referring to a supernatural being of sorts. You have to be completely insane to say that you can mathematically depict the beginning of mass or time; in my mind there is no LOGICAL explanation for the beginning, thus leaving but one option: the existence of a supernatural.

This post has been edited by Cwilm on Mar 24 2012, 01:53 AM


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Rather than looking for a problem in my reasoning, find a solution and be production.

"A perfection of means, and confusion of aims, seems to be our main problem."
-Albert Einstein
"An idea that is not dangerous is unworthy of being called an idea at all."
-Oscar Wilde
"A question that sometimes drives me hazy: am I or are others crazy?"

"I can press where there needs to be pressed; I can hold hands When there needs to be -- hold hands."
-George w bush. This guy was president?! Wow I guess it is true you can be whatever you wish to be.
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Mekigal
Posted: Mar 25 2012, 08:13 AM


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QUOTE (NymphaeaAlba @ Apr 15 2011, 09:37 PM)
QUOTE (Newguy)
Better yet, you missed the part where I referred to you (and others) as "swine". That's how Jesus views you, in your present condition.

Ya, I know. I've been telling myself this same thing, and with bikini weather just around the corner, I've got to lay off the chocolate...blink.gif

I like chocolate. How about that commercial were the pig is rolling down a hill on a skate board going weee weeee weeee . Love the pin wheels .

Wow God discussions abound . Why am I surprised? Not . O.K. don't get me started .

God is the word . We made it God a long time ago as far as I can tell . Like pi or 2pi ,what ever camp your in. Or like when we drive a peg in the ground and use it for our reference to measure from when building . Like a side . We pick a side and say O.K. we are gonna call this the god line. We will square off it we will make parallels to it. We will give it height , width and length . We will triangulate from it and what ever else we need to do to complete what ever we gonna complete . So when in doubt all you got to do is check with the line . See how far out you are from that line . We make the line our point of reference and there by making it our god reference.

So in the beginning of braking free of intuition living we came up with the word and we made it god. Now all the suckers in the world are subject to the word. Word slaves to God "The Word" or language.

When it really went to hell is when we started writing it down. You had deny-ability before we wrote the word . Now. We are all screwed and have been for a very long time.

Hell look at all the nonsense laws we have. You can't live life with out braking a law at some point in your life and if you think so then just wait for the next batch of laws to come down the road. I am sure they will cover something you do .

The word is God

Oh so you might think God is the word and not the other way around . Like gods word or something ? No it should go both ways I think
God=word
Word=God

I tested it . You all are subject to the word . Yeah . The word is God, Or should I say " The Word" is god
Bible thumps,
Pay attention " All words new and old" not just what you consider the holy book

I got some experiments for you to run if you dare. Blow your mind when you find out I am right. It is not at all what your naive minds tell you.

I am thinking of starting a thread on this very subject . "The Word" as God
I am just about ready . Soon as I can get the vulgarity , or the appearance of sexual explicitness out of it. Yeah ! That is what got Me banned at Sciforum . People can't handle the truth . Who is ready?
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Ewol
Posted: Mar 26 2012, 03:31 PM


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The way I see it, controversial as it may be, as long as what was here before the universe as we now see it was non zero then the probability of the universe coming into being is infinity to 1 in favor. The problem being the way it works in allowing beings such as us to come into existence. Did the laws evolve naturally or have they been laid down by a cosmic intelligence such as God. If they evolved naturally then the universe must be much older than we currently think to allow for all the failed universes that did not allow life. Universes built on previous universes until the laws allowed ours, evolution at work, so even using this the chances are that God must also evolve eventually and that would be before our evolution.
So I think it is reasonable to believe that the laws were laid down by God to create our universe out of chaos, the same way we lay down laws to control a civilized society and stop it going back to an uncivilized state.
Gods word was law litterally and that's all the energy that was needed to start the universe off, no big bang just energy created out of an infinite EM field that was non zero.
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Mekigal
Posted: Mar 27 2012, 06:35 PM


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QUOTE (Ewol @ Mar 26 2012, 03:31 PM)
The way I see it, controversial as it may be, as long as what was here before the universe as we now see it was non zero then the probability of the universe coming into being is infinity to 1 in favor. The problem being the way it works in allowing beings such as us to come into existence. Did the laws evolve naturally or have they been laid down by a cosmic intelligence such as God. If they evolved naturally then the universe must be much older than we currently think to allow for all the failed universes that did not allow life. Universes built on previous universes until the laws allowed ours, evolution at work, so even using this the chances are that God must also evolve eventually and that would be before our evolution.
So I think it is reasonable to believe that the laws were laid down by God to create our universe out of chaos, the same way we lay down laws to control a civilized society and stop it going back to an uncivilized state.
Gods word was law litterally and that's all the energy that was needed to start the universe off, no big bang just energy created out of an infinite EM field that was non zero.

The building of God Maybe , but I am thinking it didn't kick off the universe . The word started the building of God is what I mean , Not the other way around . Humans building God out of the words . The words become habitual and are incorporated into human endeavors based on the build-able structure of the wording . Like for example most people don't kill other people . See it is built into the moral fiber of the standard human by the words.
Lets take wolves for example . We kill wolves still . The battle is heated . It is not clear whether wolves should or should not be killed yet . The words will influence the outcome by court orders in this case . The words will become god in this matter after the debate is settled .

O.K. lets put it this way. If we are to believe words have meaning ? What is in a name ? They have long trails like imaginary lines going back to the past . Morphing along the way . Picking up baggage as they drift through time .
So we place value on the words. We except the meaning of the words . They are god

We build the image of God in this respect. To mimic humanity. As they say in the image of God
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Ewol
Posted: May 31 2012, 08:46 AM


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Words are the physical manifestation of thought, God was the first thought so as to speak.
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Mekigal
Posted: May 31 2012, 03:10 PM


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QUOTE (Ewol @ May 31 2012, 08:46 AM)
Words are the physical manifestation of thought, God was the first thought so as to speak.

thats pretty good . Tim Erickson he is the one that got it right . Back when I was just a pup in High school he revealed the solution to Me . He said the future thought pulled the universe into existence. If you think about it it does work that way . Our lives anyway . I don't know about universe ? But mechanically speaking it does. Systems of collusion and collision. Conspiring and motivations . Motion in General ( sorry , iam working on my branding of M.G. )

You guys know I am god yet ? "The Boiling Yokel" the 30 ft road that leads to the north Great House. The invention of the cross and all that dreamy state of existence.

I didn't make me . You all forced me into it . Your the ones that conspired to make me god . O.M.G. Whose Idea was that one ? I know it was one of your Mothers . Was that you Sally?

I can tell you all where Jesus is right now . He is featured in a Video by the Red Hot Chili Peppers . They flash on him for just a moment in time .

:::: Song <<< Rain Dance Maggy
Location ::: L.A.

Just about the middle of the song he appears .
Look for ::: Roller skater with a guitar and a little amp on his back with a funny hat .
That Is Jesus my friends . I love em if the truth be known . He is symbol of perseverance. Something the world is lacking in cause of all your hoarding selfishness as a species . Jesus of L.A. don't think that way at all and you do your self wise to immerse your self in musical culture . It is the Mother road .

I am going to go see that video again. It blows my mind and I think he is singing about Me. Me being a rain dancer my self and an M.G.
Maggots eat *** like Mekigars

This post has been edited by Mekigal on May 31 2012, 03:21 PM
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Mekigal
Posted: May 31 2012, 04:04 PM


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See you all are way behind the times . You live in the past . You can't help it so your not to blame for being behind the times , Sign of the times . See you don't know about that stuff cause you don't read an interpret the bible like it was business plan . Your brains can't separate the work of the artist and the mesmerizing effect it has on you to do day to day operations of the bigger business plan. Well bones the business plan is done . We completed it . Now you need to bare minimum do analysis of the data . See if we need some adjustments . It is board meeting time my friends . Some of the *** didn't work out like we expected. The victimization of Christ sure didn't work out . It created suicidal tendencies in many many people .


O.K. Paul Simon and Bob Dylan got it right . So did Kieth Richards .

It was so funny I laughed like hell . Some other person that found there fifteen minutes of fame on his dying bed said """ I can't believe Kieth Richards is going to out live me "
( not to be confused with " Me")

Did you catch that with the president ( Bob Dylan got a life time achievement award .
See he is alive and still giving unlike Evil-Jesus who is dead and not coming back in the flesh except by idiots copying him ( Except my friend on roller skates is not like the old suffering Jesus , Perseverance is not the same as giving up the spirit. It is the continued will to live . To maintain a young at heart mind . Something Jesus had not a clue cause well he died at a young age . Younger than even a Haitians average life span of some where between 49 and 54.

Bob Dylan has done more for Humanity than he will be recognized for in his life time . He will be the gift that keeps giving way into the future . That one song about Monkey Man and Tweeder will be reanalyzed over and over again because of vastness of the words . See I know *** you don't know cause of my confirmation bias abilities . I embraced them early on in my existence. Had no choice as it was more like your Father screaming at you to preform. Mikel Ridgley get in here. I Tell you it is enough to get your goat , kill him and throw him in a drainage ditch . Shoot him in the heart
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Mekigal
Posted: May 31 2012, 04:26 PM


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see you all are way behind the times . The Christain new earth of revelations . It started a little late when Columbus started passing the buck onto native peoples of the Americas( Turtle Island ) That is the real name Turtle Island . You think it a coincident my Name on Venice beach is Turtle ? It is not . You think the 2nd deepest cave in the states barring lava flow tubes in Hawaii is called " The Turtles Greathouse" just out side my back door is called that for no reason. It is the sign of the times and you are way behind in the business plan we call the bible .
You think I was forced to be a carpenter for no reason . The one thing I think I didn't mention about the day Squeeky From pulled a 22 pistol on President Ford . That was the day I quit college because my school grant didn't come in time to meet my obligations of just being alive . It was my school she did it at . The red tape of government is to blame . It was my school and I would have been standing in her very spot as it was my rout to class @ that very moment in time I would have walked right threw Sqeeky in an alternate universe. No my fate was set in time to be who I am right now at this very moment . You all better start giving to Wood For Haiti if you want the human race to adapt to the changing conditions of the earth we are facing right now . I am telling you right now it is the door to human salvation and you stupid humans are doomed if you don't start giving to "Wood For Haiti"
We got a plan and a good one . The Justice Department said it has been proven to be the only successful way of lifting a peoples out of poverty . They gave us our 501-c3 in eight days . That is unheard of . 3 months is the average.
You better start giving if you want a life for your grand children .

I am the Door . You have a chance to open that door . What are you going to do ? Continue in your selfish ways as I watch Jelly fish replace you as the leading orientates of earth . It is time . The time is short . The window is small. Brake on threw the other side my friends
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Mekigal
Posted: May 31 2012, 04:49 PM


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I didn't coin the phrase " I am the door to Heaven " A guy back in 1925 claimed Me as the door in his book :::
The Phoenician origin of Britons Scots and Anglo-Saxtons

He is the one that said Mekigal was the door to heaven . I am not so vain I would come up with that my self . Although I always knew it cause of you fuckers tormenting me all my life . No such luck suckers . I have risen above your brutalness and well I am real good at kicking ***. I am an *** kicker probably cause I got my *** kicked to many times . Still standing Mo Fos . High Five to buddy Flash at Venice Beach if your still alive.

You the Man bro . My brother. My musical compadray
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Physfan
Posted: May 31 2012, 10:23 PM


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QUOTE
The fact that essentially the beginning began with absolutely nothing, nothing else can explain the beginning other than referring to a supernatural being of sorts. You have to be completely insane to say that you can mathematically depict the beginning of mass or time; in my mind there is no LOGICAL explanation for the beginning, thus leaving but one option: the existence of a supernatural.

Since your assumptions are completely incorrect, so must be your conclusions. Your other mistake is assuming that since you don't know, no one else does. Fortunately, there are many people who do know and you are prepared to willingly accept ignorance rather than learn. Sadly, religious people would rather remain ignorant than accept what many know is true.

Physfan


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Scepticism is healthy; it may save your life.
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe." A. Einstein
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Physfan
Posted: May 31 2012, 10:27 PM


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Mekigal,
I suggest you lay off the weed and learn English.

Physfan


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Fanning the flames of reason.
Scepticism is healthy; it may save your life.
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe." A. Einstein
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Mekigal
Posted: May 31 2012, 10:45 PM


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QUOTE (Physfan @ May 31 2012, 10:27 PM)
Mekigal,
I suggest you lay off the weed and learn English.

Physfan

I suggest you learn about Memetics there by understanding why you act the way you do . What the archetypes of your brain make you do against your will or what you perceive as will , for in reality you have no will but what the memes in your brain allow you to have , which operates by causality.

If you don't understand that then it is you that does not understand language not me
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Mekigal
Posted: May 31 2012, 11:15 PM


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What you don't realized is I already proved there is a bigger you that lives in a different dimension than the you talking right now . A separate dialoged of existence you are not aware of .
I know that sounds crazy to you but that is your illusion that you have free will that makes it so hard for you to see what I said is true .
There is plenty of people that wittiness my experiments in forced behavior by trigger wording that talk to the bigger self of people . They sit back and laugh when people dispute what I am putting out . Why ? cause they see fallacy. The blindness and the vanity of humanity as a whole .

Bottom line : There is a parallel language . It is instinctual and you are not immune to it. In fact you are a perfect subject and strictly controlled by the language . My job is to get you to cross over. You keep fighting it and you will stay on the other side until your death . Never realizing the joy of living on the other side of reality .

You do . You live on the other side . You just hide it from public view . If you got any kind of relationship with anyone you live that secret life with them ( Your circle of protection that you confide in with all your dirty little secrets of desire .

I call the phony face you present here your T.V. face . Your best light as you can muster. We say in building industry " Your On T.V.
It is a signal that management is watching . See you will act accordingly and put on your T.V. face .
Not Me I don't have a second face . If they don't like what I am doing they can give Me a pink slip . My work it self speaks for Me. The change or progress speaks for it self . That is why task oriented is a good way to go .

Gods do Godly things . The thing is in the doing . That is why I love Mathematicians . They hold the universe in there minds and that is truly Godly. When thy put into practice the things they hold in there minds then you defiantly have godly occurrences. Like space ships flying to Mars . Can you imagine what Jesus would think about that ? He would be like holy **** I thought I knew something about something . Romans please let Me live !!! He would recant like Galileo did when confronted by the over whelming power of the church in his day

You ever notice how certain troll patrollers don't pick on Me . Your standard Trollers that criticize your branding of greatness you portray. You ever notice that ?

Maybe it is you and not me .
? You ever think that might be the case ? One says Turtles all the way . What do you think he is trying to say ?

This post has been edited by Mekigal on May 31 2012, 11:36 PM
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boit
Posted: Jun 1 2012, 02:02 AM


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Does colour exist? Only by faith to those born blind.
Ponder that.


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Boit was last taught physics in class way back in 1994. Whatever he's learnt thereafter is purely by personal effort through this forum and searching the net. He is not an authority in any matter science. Unless with clear referrence, what he puts forward is his own understanding of what he has read and may not always be correct. Peace.
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