What generate the Particle Spin?, What generate the Particle Spin?

What generate the Particle Spin?

Seams that, when God created the Universe he played whirligig not dice.

Regards

In fact it seems the God prefers the jelly playing....

Please note the entry animations in this topic.

The particle spin is a result of nonlinear deformation of extremelly elastic Aether/quantum vaccuum, which is strictly wave based.

Therefore, the very energetic bosonic deformations behaves like massy fermions, particular on the short distances (as in the example of Z-bosone) and forms the particle-antiparticle twin pairs equilibrium (the basic principle of the materialization/anihilation equilibria).



To imagine, that vaccuum forms a liquid is possible (and often usefull from certain point of view of it) - but in generall complicates its model, because it requires introducing a concept of freely moveable particles with its own independent structure...

Therefore, I'am not expecting, that elementary particles are trully vortex-like objects - the string dualities motion resembles the movement of escapement wheel in time-piece watch rather.

Hi Zephir,

Interesting point of view.
But you confuse me :” forms the particle-antiparticle twin pairs equilibrium”. You mean that when I look at the Proton spin I should imagine there is neighbor Antiproton nearby?
Pls. Explain how you understand the origin of let’s say proton spin, from where it takes the “Energy” to spin?
Thank you,

Regards

This is not exactly, what i've meant previously - but neverthelles your'e very right too...

I've tried to explain the creation of the fermion-antifermion pairs from massive (both from the geometric, both physical point of view!) deformation of Aether/quantum vaccuum. Please, see an introductional animations in this topic). It resembles the creation the vortex-antivortex pairs in a liquid, which you can try live using this java applet



It means, whenever the photon or the other energy wave goes through the vaccuo, it creates the similar paired perturbations of it, as the mechanical wave in the fluid (but oscillating, not pure rotational vortex). Whenever you separate the pair members sucessfully, you can obtain an individual particles, like neutrino, electron and other. An by the opposite way, if some the "antivortex" are eventually mixed together, they can create the original photonic wave due to anihillation of its internal spin energy.

But you've asked me initially, if nearby the proton the same oscillatinon vortex perturbation of space exists, as in the proton alone?

My aswer is, yes, of course - they exists as the vortex surround the moving object in the fluid. And they suggests the nature of the important effect, which we are calling charge. Charge is the resonance effect of the internal movement in particle due to its propagation in Aether. They can affect a long distances, or the very short ones, depending the dimension metric involved.

Spin, like charge is not how or why but is. In other words, if one asked the question what is negative charge composed of, we might reduce negative charge to something smaller, but that something smaller itself becomes the new source of the same question. Humans label things and then compare and form analogies to other things with the same name. For example, if one has a negative attitude they do not necessarily orbit positive people. In fact, they will repel positive people. Does this mean negative people can defie the EM force? We were comparing apples to oranges. The spinning particle is not a spinning top anymore than the mass of a particle is where particles go to worship god. We need to get our minds past analogies and see some things as unique and fundamental phenomena. One should compare the spin of the top to the fundamental nature associated with particle spin and not the other way around. Spin, kinetic energy, charge, magnetism, entropy, momentum arre all possible dynamic properties of particles. As we constrain motion to a very small distance, one by one we lose these phenomena until only spin and charge remain. If we next remove any external connection to distance only spin remains. All these phenomena express distance potential with spin being the ground state.

Well, that sound nice - but the process of understanding of things is based on the installation of it into the common context and founding the consequences and similarities.

The physical meaning of spin is angular momentum of inner movement of matter in the particle, the quantum spin number is the projection (ie. normalisation) of this movement onto its axis. Then the charge suggests the parity-helicity ratio of this movement. With respect of this is easy to explain, for example, why the neutrino exists only in one helicity (if we switch it's charge, we'll swith its parity, too), whereas the electron and heavier particles can exists as positron, too. Therefore, this is very simple and natural model for understanding.

It doesnt really seem like you guys have really answered mangetom's first question ie: where does particle spin come from. The fact that any particle can move about an axis or have any kind of motion compared to any other particle is beyond human comprehension. Trying to explain one of the most fundamental properties or characteristics of a particle is as much as I "hate" to use the word like trying to explain god. I belive we will always find ways of comparing or relating functions of our world to other functions around us, but to understand it in its most complex and simple form at the same time is basically what everyone in physics has been trying to do in some way or another and that is explain "What Is"...........

Well - i've putted here an animation of formation of particle from vacuo, another pictures and link to the first one here - and you're always looking for the source of particle spin....



Maybe your'e expecting a TV show, aren't ya?

No - it isn't - but only if you'll want to, of course. Try to figure out a very soft foam, like urethane or rubber foam, as you're jumping on it.

The shape of it's deformation would resemble very closely the torroidal vibration od string dualities, which forms the base of particle inner spining movement. These vibrations are coupled together closely in system of convoluted dimension, which undergoes the mutal quantum interferrence - see the quark animation bellow.



For a better view of space deformation movement please see this video (AVI 8 MB)

Maybe the multidimensional nature of t-dualities suggest small problem for human imagination - but try to bring up vortex formed by the other vortex like the anuloid cutted accros and furled again nad again as shirtsleeve tucked...

..this is the reason, why I'am replacing it's pictures by this strange multiple winded spirals, but in some cases the scheme isn't possible to use, like in the case of zero-charged neutrinos:



Now you can understand better maye, what does it realy mean, if we're saying "the particle has charge", and how the charge is related to spin exactly.

Hello Zephir.

Perhaps what “mangetom” and “Guest_Steve” are getting at is that:

In ANY theory, the ‘nature’ and ‘source’ of the energy must be identified if the theory is not to be ‘bounded’ by STARTING IN THE MIDDLE, rather than starting from the start (as it were).


For example, your oscillating membrane-within-a-urethane-foam-like-‘bulk’ analogy and animation....

....wherein the ocillations produce ‘spinning’ topographical-soliton ‘particle-pairs’ thus provided with (internal) SPIN energy, properties and characteristics AS WELL AS (external) LINEAR energy, properties and characteristics.

The perfectly valid/logical question being asked is: What makes the ‘membrane’ oscillate in the first place? Or in other words: What is the ultimate nature/source of the motive factor that gives ANY DYNAMICS AT ALL, irrespective of the theoretical ‘level/contruct’ being described?

The answers usually trotted out by Quantum Mechanists, String Theorists (and yes, even Aetherists) and others, WILL NOT DO. By this I mean answers that ultimately rely for there logic on “random/quantum fluctuations/disturbances etc. in whatever ‘bulk’ applies in the theory.


Have I got the thrust of this thread right, fellas? If so, I hope this helps. If not, just ignore this, hehe.

By the way ZEPHIR:...I'm finding that all the graphics/animations are slowing my 'page loading' rate too much; plus it tends to fill up the browsers 'memory cache' too soon, which triggers 'cache maintenace' routines that also affect smooth operation of my poor 'computerised beast'. So I would appreciate it if you could keep the graphics/animations in check as best you can consistent with your explanatory needs. I know you will not be offended, because it is obvious you are the type who appreciates others' problems and points-of-view. Thanks, Zephir.


Best illucidatory regards from: RealityCheck.

Oh, Zephi...in my post just now...I said that the answers usually trotted out by Quantum Mechanists, String Theorists (and yes, even Aetherists) and others, WILL NOT DO because they ultimately rely for there logic on “random/quantum fluctuations/disturbances etc. in whatever ‘bulk’ applies in the theory".

The reason I forgot to give for WHY such answers "...will not do..." is: these answers then beg the question...What causes such fluctuations/disturbances, whether random or not, in the 'bulk'? That is, what is the ultimate motive force for ANTTHING to occur at all? Of course, there MUST BE something doing it...but can you 'identify' it in terms/concepts logically-consistent with your theory?


Amnesiacal regards from: RealityCheck.

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Hi. RealChecky...

I believed it's obvious, that's result of energetic photonic wave passage - but it could be result of insintric vaccuum fluctuation, of course. Under normal circumstances, the Aether is full of such a vibrations - they gives it the mass behavior - and the resistance against the collapse of this mass (like the string vibrations) at the same place.

The heavier the universe is, the more energetic these vibrations must be - but the more slowly the energy moves through such of this Aether - which therefore tends to be unstable as the result. We'll discuss the consequnces later.


...all the graphics/animations are slowing my 'page loading' rate too much Sorry, but it could be result of this animationonly, which is really a bit large. The rest of all pictures isn't larger then any other web page vith commercials, but nevertheless - thank You for your notification!

By my experience it's rather some of bug's of MSIE browser - because Firefox&others displays the same GIFs quite well... The Aether (i.e. quantum vaccuum) motion model is rather complicated, you know - so just single picture couldn't be enough for it's understanding.

Of course, the concept of "energy" quantity has a crucial importance here, even more than "mass" maybe - because it suggests a more general therm!

Well, in my theory the energy is the wave energy of the motion and the mass forms it's irregularities (generally speaking, it corresponds the 1st and 2nd derivation of motion).

The simple harmonic wave of supergravity forms the flat spacetime without masses - but it's obvious, that such of spacetime exhibits a just repulsive force only (like a tense string). Therefore it must be in euillibria with the irregularities (i.e. perturbances) of this harmonic motion, which are creating the virtual massive particles in it.

I hope, the picture given here helps you understand better, what i mean here without deep math...

So the very basic answer is: the ENERGY is the energy of wave motion of its OWN potential, because of the universe is based on the continuous exchange of the potential and kinetic energy, described by the wave equation.

Moreover, the inner energy density taking part of this exchange serves as the potential in the derived spacetime by the same manner, as the density of (vibration of) fluid forms the potential for the waves onto it's surface.

As you can see - the whole model has a solid physical meaning in the real world, too. This is why i like it, by the way - 'cause it doesn't introduce any new concepts of the understanding, in principle. But its consequences are rather complicated, due to it's multidimensional nature - more then vortex motion of fluid, for example. The wave interference and quntum effects plays a main role in its topology.