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> How is it possible?
Draugluin
Posted: Aug 20 2005, 02:08 PM


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As you all know, in length, (as well as any other kind of measurement) there is an inifnite amount of sub-divisions, it is possible to get ever-decreasing lengths. But when you (for example) move your arm 2cm to the right, it does, but it moves in 1 flowing motion, which means that it goes through the "length markings" without a break. But isn't that impossible, since there is no end to the "smallness" of amount you can move? So, how can anything manage to move?

Sorry for such a dumb question sad.gif
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Justavian
Posted: Aug 20 2005, 02:53 PM


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There may be discreet distances that particles can move. Perhaps the Planck length. This is many orders of magnitude smaller than even subatomic particles. Some people think that time isn't smooth either, but rather ticks along in Planck time intervals (the time it takes for light to travel one Planck length).

Clearly these lengths are so ridiculously tiny that everything we see - including the tiniest particles - appear to move along with perfect smoothness.
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Draugluin
Posted: Aug 21 2005, 06:03 AM


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QUOTE (Justavian @ Aug 20 2005, 10:53 PM)
Some people think that time isn't smooth either, but rather ticks along in Planck time intervals (the time it takes for light to travel one Planck length).

But if this is so, and there is a "tick of the universe"(reminds me of Terry Prachet's Discworld biggrin.gif ). It still doesnt explain how anything moves, litke, does it "teleport" blink.gif to the next Planck length? As it is 1.6 x 10-35 m, does that means that every thing is "teleporting" blink.gif that distance many times over as you move? Or is it jerking, which really doesnt make sense in the common usage of the word, as when you jerk, the object still moves through that space in the middle. But I just probably dont understand either what you are talking about or the word 'jerk'.
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a_ht
Posted: Aug 21 2005, 09:01 PM


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That question was asked 4000 years ago or so, from old greeks philosopher (cant remember names - sry)


do a search for calculus on google and you will find your answer.
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Draugluin
Posted: Aug 22 2005, 01:30 PM


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Uh.. Thanks, but its no help as im absolutely unsure of what i am looking for ph34r.gif ... Please help! huh.gif
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ArtflDgr
Posted: Aug 22 2005, 02:05 PM


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QUOTE (Draugluin @ Aug 22 2005, 01:30 PM)
Uh.. Thanks, but its no help as im absolutely unsure of what i am looking for ph34r.gif ... Please help! huh.gif

he is refering to zeno's paradox...

when one wants to leave a room one starts to walk to the door..
in alf the distance half the time has past. and so on...
this division of course is infinite and therefore you never reach the door.


perhaps one way to think of this is to remember wave duality. a wave passes through zero energy and then a positive energy again. if this is what happens at the planck length, then its posible that things move by a sort of translation in their wave form by its collapse and its return....

just thinking.
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a_ht
Posted: Aug 23 2005, 02:57 AM


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Also, the answer was also found quite a long time ago... centuries before quantum mechanics and planck...

Basicaly, you are trying to find if the following summation converges or diverges.

S[i->1;n->(infinity);i++] x/(i)^2, where 2*x is the distance seperating the two points.

The summation is equivalent to this one; x/1 + x/2 + x/4 + x/8 ...

If this sum converges, the total traveled distance is finite. If it diverges, the total traveled distance is infinite.

As expected, it does converge and we can all go back to sleep with peace of mind in knowing that the universe will still be there when we wake up... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harmonic_seri...8mathematics%29
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a_ht
Posted: Aug 23 2005, 03:12 AM


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Draugluin
Posted: Aug 23 2005, 01:23 PM


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Cool Stuff! Anyway, thanks to all. laugh.gif
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Ron
Posted: Aug 23 2005, 03:47 PM


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Just a thought. Quantized movement can be seen on a macro scale with super-fluid helium. A thimble sized bucket of super-cooled helium (cooled til it's friction is 0) spun will show the helium going from one level to another on the sides of the 'bucket', never being in between.
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Ron
Posted: Aug 23 2005, 03:56 PM


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Mispoke a little. Check out this web site:)
http://london.ucdavis.edu/~zieve/Research/super1.html
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Draugluin
Posted: Aug 24 2005, 12:52 PM


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blink.gif Though I belive that what they are saying is that the super fluid helium would just seperate itself into sections according to its speed. It seems to move through the spaces between to get to where it should be though....right?
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solidspin
Posted: Aug 24 2005, 03:16 PM


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Drauglin -

right - in the He(l) case, yes. It prefers to quantize as stated, but the liquid does have to go through the "non-quantized" states. They're really not "non-quantized states, however. This doesn't violate QM at all, since the preferred states or eigenvalues (b/z of the temperature) are offset by the fact that the system is rotating. The rotation is another axis and induces a different set of eigenvalues for the atoms to take, since now there is a competing system w/ a different axis orientation.

We encounter this w/ different nuclei, like iodine-125 or bromine-79 whose eigenvalues in the magnetic field compete w/ the nuclei's own massive electric field gradient (EFG) which is almost as strong. You end up w/ a different set of eigenvalues from either the magnetic field or the EFG - what a pain! But still supercool!

-ss
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Aaron
Posted: Aug 30 2005, 04:33 PM


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All these answers are crap, it has nothing to do with anything, Its just your perception, how you pervceive movement. Its just as reasonable to say for every 1 inch that my arm moves, there will be 100 elephants created instantaionsly on the underside of a table.

The rules by which you consider measurement of movement are your own!

How does it happen? You tell me!
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solidspin
Posted: Aug 30 2005, 05:47 PM


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oh, great -

Another armchair philosopher. Aaron - you are incorrect. Come under my magnet and I will prove that QM is very real and I would give it up in a second for a less abstract discipline, but I can't.

ss
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