Time Travel ..., Which Flicks Did It Right?

Useless Long Preamble (feel free to skip down):
A recent spate of negative feedback I've received has left me with a quandary. I've always known my place here isn't in any way, shape or form related to expertise with regard to physics. My recent problems stem from an inability to articulate certain concepts clearly (i.e ... whether or not there was a "point" from which a big bang emanated ... blah blah blah it's not important here so don't go there).

That ineptitude resulted in having to retort against (from my perspective) a series of dogmatic and then insulting responses. I'm never one to back down from what I perceive as an unwarranted attack. So when that stupidity was done ... I thought ... fuckthisplace.

So I had a little internal debate ... leave this place to the nutjobs, the dogmatists and the increasingly few cordial normal folks .... OR do my best to engage in a discussion where I can contribute something interesting. The pissing off and forgetting this joint exists option was pretty palatable.

Who really wants to deal with an *** like Trout? Seriously. I admit I'd miss educating Philip386747949982 about Nachos and of course the joyousness of criticizing Yahweh for not giving us the ability to grow back severed limbs is always good for a hoot. Then I realized ... I can piss off from here at anytime. So I'll give it another shot ... who knows ... maybe Trout and his pathetic sycophants (you know who you are) will decide to piss off instead. Or they could just see what dicks they are and straighten up and fly right (never happen).

I considered what actually I've contributed here and came to the conclusion that besides occasionally skull-cracking some fundies that I'm best suited to less technical topics. So without further BS ...

Actual Proposed Discussion:
I watched a flick tonight called "FAQ's about Time Travel". It was a low budget HBO/BBC thing about three basic dorks that find themselves in a series of time travel scenarios. We've all seen movies that treat this subject with varying degrees of success. I liked the treatment the writer gave the subject in the case of this movie and it made me think about the other movies I've seen and how they addressed the difficulties associated with this fictional topic. So I'll give my list of the best movies with "Time Travel" themes and ask others to give theirs.

Let me give a sort of preamble part 2 here ... time travel is essentially not possible ok? Yes ... go near the speed of light for a while and when you get back loads of time would have passed here. But outside of that ... I don't think it's possible. Nevertheless ... it's an enjoyable topic and great for a movie.

12 Monkeys -- This film dealt realistically with so many of the classic paradoxes that occur with time travel. The world is done in by a plague that few survive. Future scientists send grunts back in time to attempt to change the past so the plague is avoided. The overriding theme is one of destiny. No matter what the characters do the present plays out the same way resulting in an identical future. This is a great movie for lots of reasons ... the acting is tremendous, the directing is great ... etc. But the whole idea that destiny determines the future is a load of tripe. But since the rest of the film is so so so very good it's on my list. I think ... If you could go back in time ... you'd certainly be able to change history.

The Time Machine -- This movie makes my list because it does something so many other movies are afraid to do. The story goes 800,000 years into the future. So many other stories limit themselves to a couple of centuries or so. I don't get that. In both the original and the relatively recent remake I particularly like the scene where the main character is in his machine and is first covered by a mountain which eventually erodes away to expose the future world. The whole underground monsters BS feeding on future human cattle ... I could do without. It's also a mistake to bring someone back from the future to a point in time where days or weeks have past since they first left. You'd come back 1 second later. No reason to do it otherwise. It's good that they stuck to the book's story I suppose. But they could have made a better movies if they hadn't.

Frequency -- In this film the main character communicates his father on a ham radio from 30 years in the past. Together they eventually solve a string of murders (one of which was the main characters mother). This is one of those happy ending ones where stupid concepts like destiny don't preclude changing things. This movie is on my list because there isn't actually any physical travel to the past (which I always have an issue with but generally can accept for entertainment purposes) but still addresses some of the realities very well. The key moment comes when the father in the past places a piece of evidence so his future son can find it. Of course, it happens instantly. And the "thriller" aspects of solving the murders is done well.

Groundhog Day -- The most purely entertaining film of the genre. Bill Murray was the perfect guy for the role. He's funny in a funny movie. It avoids a lot of the problems with the genre by simply looping one day. The best episode of the TV series Stargate SG-1 did a similar thing. I wouldn't want to heap too much praise on this film in terms of dealing with time travel issues. It was just a good flick. Maybe it doesn't deserve to be on the list? It's here though.

The Jacket -- Without explaining or speculating about how it happens a man in a mental home travels between the present, past and future and ultimately secures a potentially happy future for himself. This movie is drama without the science. It is excellent drama though. The guy we want to win, wins. I found it powerful because of the acting. In a similar way to Groundhog Day it's sort of "time travel light". But the character's interactions are really compelling. I enjoyed it enough that I watched it twice within a week.

Terminator Series -- Without the final movie this series isn't so much about time travel as it is about preventing a bad future. But the final movie was excellent. It put all the issues from the first three in their place. It resolved them all. If the 4th movie hadn't been made I wouldn't have this series on my list. If you haven't seen it but were entertained by the others ... then see it. Yes. The third movie was shite.

Time Bandits -- I'd put this in the same category as Groundhog Day. It's a wildly entertaining film. Great characters. Lots of fun stuff. And the best personification of God ever by Sir Ralph Richardson. Terry Gilliam (of Monty Python fame) directed and you can't go wrong watching any movie he's ever made.

Deja Vu -- Saw this recently. Essentially, the government has a machine that lets them see into the past. But only 4 days because of "physics limitations". That concept in the movie is lame. Ultimately, the main character travels back a couple of days and prevents a terrorist attack. The twist at the end is worth not revealing and the director/writer handled it all very well. It's on my list because of that. It's just well crafted ... other than the stupidity of sitting in front of computers and peering into the 4 day old past in "realtime" segments. Dumb.

So those are mine. There's lots of others. What makes your list? Why? What time travel movies were total crap in your opinion?

My next thread:
Which movies about the future had the most compelling vision of the future? Stay tuned ...

This post has been edited by uaafanblog on Oct 19 2009, 01:03 PM

Primer - An ultra low-budget (but really good) look at two engineers who figure out how to time travel a few hours into the past. The catch is that they can only travel as far back as the machine has been turned on, and they have to sit in the box for the exact amount of time that they want to travel. Initially, they use this to game the stock market, but things get extremely complicated fairly quickly. You will need to watch this movie at least twice to figure it out.

As to your feedback problems, I would be wary of making any statements about science that sound crank-y. This includes stating that established science is wrong, without specific examples and proof. I think all of us crank-smashers are a little jumpy when it comes to that kind of thing, so our crank-sense is a little too sensitive. What I usually do is include a disclaimer in statements that I am not sure about, such as "Correct me if I'm wrong" etc.

(edit)
Back to time travel, IMHO time travel in the movie sense is impossible. You couldn't go back into the past and expect those changes to be reflected in your original timeline. Any changes to the past would have to be made to an alternate timeline that doesn't affect your original one. Or, the universe doesn't care about continuity and just rolls with whatever changes you make. Either way, IMHO time paradoxes are not possible. Ideally, I would prefer to use time travel just as a window to the past, not a door. E.g. You can look but you can't touch. This way, we can solve mysteries and observe historical events without screwing them up. There is probably a good reason why we have no time-travelers from the future running around. (either time travel is and will always be impossible, or there is a logistical barrier to changing the past)

This post has been edited by flyingbuttressman on Oct 19 2009, 01:17 PM

When I saw a trailer for this sometime back I was kinda turned off because the main characters seemed like the sort of greedy bastards that I wouldn't piss on if they were on fire. If they get their just rewards then maybe I'll give it a look. Or if you think my initial impression was wrong and that perhaps the main characters have redeeming value then I'll give it a look.

Yea ... if I'd made any such statements then you'd be right. I didn't however. I argued for a position that was ultimately confirmed by other posters regardless of Trout's continuing assertions. Being labeled crank by him here doesn't necessarily mean one is a crank. I never have and never will espouse any particular theory other than to express that certain things make intuitive sense to me and/or I "hope" things are different.

Other quality posters have been chased away from here by Trout's antics and his blind sycophantic followers. Nobody regrets the loss of the psychotic morons that show up here and post their bullshit TOE's in their first entry. But when minds like Good Elf and others don't post anymore then perhaps Trout should do a little perception checking. 4D gives me pos's for the same reason that Geoff or Fred pile on the negs when they see Trout do it. It's ridiculous high school girl crappola.

I'm sorry I included the preamble ... I wanted to get it off my chest since I nearly didn't come back here at all (and yes .. I recognize that nobody would really care if I didn't and some people would be happy that I left).

I essentially agree. As for some esoteric speculation ... I think you could imagine a scenario that included time travel into the past but that just doing so (because any seemingly insignificant change) would mean a new "slice" of the multiverse would be carved off (timeline). In that sense, perhaps we create a new "slice" with every choice we make about anything. A truly unlimited infinite number of 'verses in the greater multi-whole certainly provides the room necessary.

Future possible responses by others here:

Anyone ... Anyone?

This post has been edited by uaafanblog on Oct 20 2009, 01:07 AM

I wouldn't say that they were extremely greedy per-se. They used their invention to game the stock market, but their real problems start when they try to 'fix' something in their own lives. The confusing part of the movie is the fact that it has a non-linear plot, REALLY non-linear.
I wouldn't trust the trailer.
Ebert's review

I agree, Trout can be overzealous. I haven't really done anything to provoke him... yet.

Those were my favorite movies as a kid
Science-wise, you might as well be watching Bill & Ted.

Best time travel movie: Bill & Ted's Excellent Adventure. End of discussion.

Most scientific time travel movie: Primer.

Thats a great list youve got there.

Slaughterhouse Five by Kurt Vonnegut. Its the story of a guy who's "unstuck" in time.

I would like to submit "Star Trek: The Voyage Home" as the second most quotable time travel movie ever (after Bill & Ted).
"Take me to your nuclwear wessels!"
"Double dumbass on you!"
"Dialysis? What is this? The dark ages?"
"Computer? Hello computer?"
"A keyboard, how quaint!"

Also, I would like to submit the TARDIS as the best time machine ever.

Glad you mentioned a book from my favorite author. I didn't include the movie on my list even though I think it was really quite true to the novel.

Vonnegut can be considered both science-fiction and not science fiction at the same time. I think this story and Cat's Cradle are both good examples of that. I think the "science" parts in both stories (as well as a lot of his other work) is really there for exposition for imagination. Similarly, Cat's Cradle uses a similar tactic with the concept of Ice-9. It's a vehicle to examine humanity. (I know all good sci-fi is exactly that).

In Slaughterhouse Five's case Billy Milligan only travels through time in his mind (my personal opinion). It's a story technique that allows Vonnegut to weave the story of Billy's life without doing it event by event. Vonnegut makes Billy himself aware of his "travellings" yet (if I'm not mistaken) the only time Billy mentions traveling through time is when he's on Tralfamadore (which I'd guess is really his life-after-death).

So anyway ... Slaughterhouse Five is relevant for the list ... and it's not. LOL. I chose not for minor reasons entirely.

Some great films. My kids liked "Time After Time."


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_After_Time_(1979_film)

I certainly included the Star Trek movies for the list.

But honestly, don't you think several Voyager TV episodes did a better job than any of the movies that included it thematically. Specifically the episode where Kurtwood Smith (Red Foreman of "That 70's Show") was the Captain of a Time Ship that was trying to restore a timeline that would include his wife being alive. It was a two-parter if I recall correctly called "The Year of Hell". It was very similar (conceptually-wise but not treatment-wise) to the Stargate Episode that I mentioned where a 10 hour time loop is created by a guy trying to do the same thing i.e... bring his wife back to life. That's the SG1 episode where O'Neill realizes there are no repercussions to any actions he takes while in the loop and starts doing anything and everything that he wouldn't otherwise consider.

Interestingly, Kurtwood Smith was the main character in a Showtime "30 Minute Movie" in 1990 called "12:01" in which a 59 minute loop started and he was the only one to notice. It must have been the inspiration for Groundhog Day though it wasn't comedic. I don't remember 12:01 that well except to say that he finally figured out a way to get to a physicist that had predicted the loop might happen at 12:01 ...

I liked that film too and it got consideration for my list. H.G. Wells chasing Jack The Ripper through time? Cool idea ... it has a love interest too. Overall certainly entertaining. Not too convoluted or full of paradoxes.

Thinking of it always reminds me of "Somewhere In Time" with Christopher Reeve and Jane Seymour that came out about the same time as "Time After Time". Freaking Hollywood and the whole idea stealing shite competition ... lol.

Time After Time and Somewhere In Time ...
E.T. and Starman ...
Deep Impact and (the worst movie ever made) Armageddon ...
and plenty of other examples that don't come to mind at the moment.

I remember being so offended and insulted that Armageddon did so much better than Deep Impact. Armageddon was trash. Deep Impact was 10 times the movie ... it had some science issues but nothing like the "Asteroid" (sic) in Armageddon ... PUHLEASE ... *** were those Glass-Like spires supposed to be? It wasn't like in 1988 we had no ideas about the surface of Asteroids. Thinking about that movie makes my head hurt.

You've got some good points. But if we're just talking about great movies in general, then Martin Scorsese's "The Departed" should be considered.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Departed

That was the single best episode of Voyager ever made. The entire time I watched it, I kept thinking "This is why you don't kill a scientist's family, dumbass!"

"Window of Opportunity" was the episode.

A well crafted film. Scorsese is of course a genius.


Edit: Anyone watching Stargate Universe?

So far I'm liking it. It's not as episodic as the other Stargate series so it doesn't move to fast. If anyone is watching it then here's my prediction for the next episode ...

The "Destiny" appears headed for doom on a path into some star with zero power other than life support. However, I'm betting it's going to kipe some plasma from that star to repower itself.

This post has been edited by uaafanblog on Oct 20 2009, 05:00 AM

There is a time-travel plot in Girl Genius (online & on-paper mad scientist serial comic, now in something like 8 volumes) but not much has happened yet -- no idea who invented the time machine or what purpose it is being used for when it shows up from time to time....