Very Affraid By Ivan Gorelik's Theory On Lhc

Hi everybody,

Could a physicist (or even a people who have degrees in physics) have a close and honest look on Ivan Gorelik's calculations and assumptions which are on one of his webpage (the precise title, to find it easily, is "Magnetic trap of devil. Calculation").

So, do Ivan Gorelik's theory on "magnetic holes" ("Magnetic trap of devil. Calculation) raises a serious issue (and so LHC switch on must be halted) or is it plain crack ?

I thank you by advance for your help

greetings from France

Absolute complete and utter wackjob. He seems to call himself 'Dr Dark Energy', which might be a bit like the creationist felon Kent Hovind calling himself 'Dr Dino', an attempt to convince people he's educated in the subject matter but isn't anything close to it.

His website is basically him saying "I know I'm right without explaination". He admits he's got zewro evidence for what he believes. Don't be suckered into worrying about the LHC by idiots like this, they are bitter and twisted because they tried to do physics when they were young and found it was too hard and now they want to convince everyone else that physics is wrong, thus allowing them to convince themselves they didn't need to learn the overly hard physics anyway. It's their defense mechanism.

But besides his weird and megalomaniac tendancy, what do you think of his calculations and assumptions (which are in the part "Magnetic trap of devil. Calculation" of one of hiw website) ?

Are they totally weird and crack or is there some real issues ?

Thank you again by advance for you reassuring !

Greeting

Utterly wacko. He is simply making stuff up as he goes along. Absolutely nothing to it.

I personally dislike the whole 'It's called the God particle' thing, no physicist actually calls it that, its a media thing. Hence his entire "The antiparticle of the God particle is the Devil particle" is nonsense, people reading too much into utterly artificial names for things and mixing in their religious BS. I work in a physics department and none of us call it 'The God Particle', we call it the Higgs.

This guy has popped up here before. Basically, he's spent one year at a university and it's not clear he was even studying physics there. Then he became a physics teacher. As AN said, he's a complete loony with little or no physics knowledge. Being a school teacher doesn't mean you know anything about physics. Where I went to school physics was a joke - completely unnecessary if you wanted to do physics at uni.

His calculations are irrelevant as he bases his calculations on no self-consistent physical theory. He works from a hypothesis which has been experimentally disproven for decades -- longer than we knew about the constituents of the nucleus. And he himself should be able to prove that he's wrong since he assumes both QCD and not-QCD. In math talk that's similar to preaching frugality while being filmed at your birthday party lighting cigars with large denomination bills. It makes no sense and is self-evident that the speaker should be ignored -- at best.

http://darkenergy.narod.ru/magtren.html

So in a nutshell, after a careful and close look upon his calculations and assumptions, there is nothing that could "turn wrong" in an apocalyptic way ?

Thank you again for your thoughts and reassuring !

Greeting from France

Oh, if you accept his assumptions, human beings can't live, chickens can't cross the street and water can't flow downhill ar STP -- it's that irrelevant to physics.

One wonders how the planet has survived this long ... being smacked by particles and photons created by stellar engines producing far higher energies than can be created by the puny LHC.

[Moderator: What follows is the pathetic ravings of a small-minded person who wants your attention. He does this even though better lunatics have made better (but still pathetic) ravings and caused loss of human life. Specifically, his claimed physics equations are not usefully predictive of any phenomenon or fact-based. He has failed to master even electromagnetism, let alone particle physics. As prometheus says below, laboratory collisions of protons have happened at 1.98 TeV, and cosmic rays cause collisions of far greater than this all over the Earth.
Like small-minded people everywhere, he argues from analogy, not as a teaching aid, but because he has only mastered small aspects of understanding, in this case high school algebra. So the below is similar to American racists who claim that President Obama is both a Communist and a Fascist, because in their limited understanding both groups are foreign and evil. It makes no sense and it informs the listener far more of what's in the speaker's heart than as a statement of fact about the real world.]
Hi all!

Dear physicists, details of my person do not deny the conclusions, made by me on the basis of logic and computation. Have you a single argument, proving that my conclusions are wrong?

What will happen if pB will be equal to mc^2, where p – magnetic moment of a proton; B – magnetic field, created by another flying by proton (or the field of already made magnetic hole) mc^2 – the rest energy of proton?

At what energy of collisions the equality pB=mc^2 is valid? My answer: 0.255 TeV.

Note 1:
Simplest definition of magnetic hole can be made on the following comparison:
Newtonian black hole: GMm/r = mc^2/2;
Magnetic hole: pB=mc^2/2.

Note 2:
The time needed the microscopic black hole capture the whole Earth is mach greater than million years. Consequently, they are safe for now living people on the Earth.
The time needed the magnetic hole capture the whole Earth is about 1000 seconds. Consequently, magnetic holes can explode the Earth and Solar system.

Note 3:
We know two types of explosions chemical and nuclear.
Astronomers see the third type of explosions – collaptical.
At nuclear explosion only few thousand’s parts of explosive rest energy is realized in the form of radiation and kinetic energy of fragments.
At some stellar collaptical explosions about a half of rest energy of the star is realized in the form of radiation and kinetic energy of the rejected stellar shell.
What type of collaptical explosions do astronomers observe: gravitational into black hole or magnetic into magnetic hole?
Is it possible to switch the magnetic collapse at collider?
My answers: The observed collapses are magnetic ones. Magnetic collapse can be switched on by powerful colliders.
Your answers: …

Physicists, what will happen at pB=mc^2, or at 0.255 TeV–collisions of protons at LHC.

This energy is smaller than can be achieved at Tevatron!

- Why it was not been received yet?
Here are some possible explanations.
1. We do not know the magnetic moment of the resulting boson.
2. It is possible that magnetic hole could be born in a collision of two quarks, for example by d and d.
3. At the Tevatron they collide protons with antiprotons and this lead to the annihilation.
4. We do not know the magnetic polarization dependence.
5. It is not excluded that microscopic magnetic traps were already created, and they are growing now somewhere inside the Earth.

LHC will be switched on in the mead-November; the first collisions are waited in a few weeks later. Do we survive or do we start into outer space?

Computations: darkenergy.narod.ru/magtren.html
Reproduction of biospheres and civilizations: darkenergy.narod.ru/civilen.html
Arguments proving that..: darkenergy.narod.ru/argen.html

Letters to presidents and authorities. darkenergy.narod.ru/prezid.html This page is in Russian. You can translate it with the help of Google. I wrote these letters because i fear the creation of magnetic holes.

The starter of this topic is “Very Affraid By Ivan Gorelik's Theory On Lhc”.
I also fear of my theory, I fear it drastically. I see that it is almost impossible to deny the launch of the LHC, or to prevent our common global suicide. According to my assumptions the probability of global catastrophe, switched by LHC, is about of dozens of percents.

This post has been edited by rpenner on Sep 19 2009, 03:06 PM

Do not forget that perhaps something totally unexpected may possibly arise....Would not that be most exciting of all possibilities?..something to set science off in new directions, perhaps towards a different theory of everything from current forms. Something that really alters our perceptions, like Hubbles work or the discovery of DE and DM...

I also think it is unrealistic to imagine that there will not be some development of colliders beyond LHC.

Sorry again to annoy you, but could all the physcist of this forum look carefully and honestly at Ivan Gorelik's calculations (his last post that i've quoted) ?

Do they raise some real issues on LHC's safety ?

Thank you again for your help !

FYI, I'm a theoretical physics postgraduate student.

Essentially what this guy is doing is pulling equations out of his anal orifice and claiming they are relevant. For example his formula pB=mc^2. Apart from the fact that mc^2 is only relevant when particles are at rest, the magnetic field would have to be absolutely huge. In fact, nearly 4 x 10^7 T for the LHS to equal the RHS for the proton. For comparison, the largest magnet at the LHC produces just over 8 T.

He is also wrong in his assertions. He says "Physicists, what will happen at pB=mc^2, or at 0.255 TeV–collisions of protons at LHC. This energy is smaller than can be achieved at Tevatron!" which is simply wrong whichever way you count the energy. The Tevatron can achieve 0.98 TeV in a single beam and 1.96 TeV collision energy.

He also seems to like to make up words to try and give what he's writing a technical sounding jargon. A collaptical[sic] explosion is a phrase I've never heard anyone use, and I've done a fair bit of work on astronomy and cosmology.

Basically Ivan Gorelik is a failure and crackpot at physics. You wouldn't be scared if I said that monsters living on Uranus were coming to destroy the planet would you? Basically, that is what Gorelik is doing - making stuff up.

No they don't. You honestly do not need to worry about the LHC. There are far more pressing problems for the world that you could be worried about like global warming and arms proliferation.

My pleasure.
PS, I got my info on the Tevatron and LHC from wikipedia. Both pages are worth a read if you're interested.

Thanks. And, of course, we're all now eagerly waiting for Ivan's reply.

Dear postgraduate student, yes, mc^2 is only relevant to the resting proton. And we measure the field B in the system of reference of resting proton.
This field is created:
by the moving proton;
by magnetic hole.
In both cases its value is about 10^16 teslas.

We neglect the field created by magnets of LHC.

Yes. And to create the computed minimal possible magnetic hole it is necessary the less energy: 0.25 TeV per particle, or 0.5 TeV per colliding pair.
Why it was not received yet, I have already said and will repeat here:
Here are some possible explanations:
1. We do not know the magnetic moment of the resulting boson.
2. It is possible that magnetic hole could be born in a collision of two quarks, for example by d and d.
3. At the Tevatron they collide protons with antiprotons and this lead to the annihilation.
4. We do not know the magnetic polarization dependence.
5. It is not excluded that microscopic magnetic traps were already created, and they are growing now somewhere inside the Earth.

What is [sic]? Do you mean, I must wrote “collapsic” instead “collaptical”?
I used a new technical jargon (collaptical explosion) in order to underline that in the Nature there are three types of explosions. If you propose me another term, explaining the supernovae explosions, I'll probably will use that term. Supernovae explosions are not chemical and not the nuclear explosions. These explosions are the result of collapse and its energy output is much greater than we observe in the nuclear explosions.

You are very clever postgraduate student. Best wishes to you and to your friends.