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> Should We Go Back To The Moon?, Cost vs Benefits
Grumpy
Posted: Jul 21 2009, 07:11 PM


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What about sending robots to the moon to mine the ice and catapult it into an L1 orbit point to build and fuel spacecraft. Ice can be a very strong structural material, it protects against harmful radiation(along with a magnetic field), it is an excellent fuel source and it is a good drinking fluid and plants like it too.

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flyingbuttressman
Posted: Jul 21 2009, 07:17 PM


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QUOTE (Grumpy @ Jul 21 2009, 02:11 PM)
What about sending robots to the moon to mine the ice and catapult it into an L1 orbit point to build and fuel spacecraft. Ice can be a very strong structural material, it protects against harmful radiation(along with a magnetic field), it is an excellent fuel source and it is a good drinking fluid and plants like it too.

Grumpy cool.gif

That would be pretty awesome. Would that be a moon trebuchet?
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uaafanblog
Posted: Jul 22 2009, 01:52 AM


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Going to the Moon instead of going to Mars is a bad idea. If you are going to do one or the other then go to Mars. If however, you fully intend to go to Mars then going to the Moon provides a myriad of opportunities and solutions that you can apply to a later Mars mission.

The Moon and Mars represent two entirely different set of benefits. Going to Mars is about affirming our abilities to do so. It is about grabbing the mantle of exploration that we humans have ignored in the past couple of centuries (the Moon shot being the exception).

Humans are imbued with an imperative to spread themselves i.e... to explore new frontiers. An interplanetary mission is just the first step. It is Columbus, Magellan, DeSoto etc ... all rolled into one.

Ultimately, Mars is probably not a great candidate for colonization (in the sense that we usually think of that term). It may be useful industrially in terms of exploiting it's resources at some point in the future. But then again, there are many resources on the Moon that we'll probably access before going to Mars for them.

I guess I just don't want to see another Moon mission if it is some sort of compromise because we didn't want to spend the money to go to Mars.


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Grumpy
Posted: Jul 22 2009, 11:35 AM


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uaafanblog

Leave the moon for the robots until we can build a space elevator on it. We should also send robots and supplies to Mars to prepare both living quarters and greenhouses(maybe cap and seal a medium sized crater) and go to Mars to stay. You could send older scientists and other disciplines on one way trips until they could build an infrastructure to refuel and return. I would volunteer in a heartbeat to spend my golden years on a planet with much less gravity, even if it was a one way trip with no return or rescue possible. A tether is also possible on Mars with present technology and materials, or at least a sling ship. And when I think about all those Shuttle tanks they just burned up in the atmosphere instead of parking them in orbit to use to build a real space station(not that shack they ended up with), it makes me mad.

Grumpy cool.gif


--------------------
Rationality, logic, and civil debate fail when confronted with blunt stupidity. Kaeroll

Nature is not constrained by your lack of imagination.

"I received your letter of June 10th. I have never talked to a Jesuit priest in my life and I am astonished by the audacity to tell such lies about me. From the viewpoint of a Jesuit priest I am, of course, and have always been an atheist." Albert Einstein, letter to Guy H. Raner Jr, July 2, 1945

“Admittedly, people of a theological bent are often chronically incapable of distinguishing what is true from what they’d like to be true.” Richard Dawkins.

"Fear of God is not the beginning of wisdom, but it's end." Clarence Darrow

"Pantheism is sexed-up atheism. Deism is watered-down
theism." Richard Dawkins
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uaafanblog
Posted: Jul 22 2009, 11:10 PM


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I'm wondering about the fruits of Mars colonization other than for industrial exploitation (which is certainly a long long way off in any case). In my lifetime I'd be happy to see a single successful round trip manned mission of exploration.

Of course between now and then we should send as many different robots as we can imagine. I have many awesome Spirit and Opportunity panorama pictures but they both landed in really really really really boring places. I want to see Olympus Mons from the ground. I want a big fat juicy picture from a rim of the Valles Marineris.

I remember a proposal for a flying robot of some sort on Mars. That jazzed me.


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I been stuffed in your pocket for the last hundred days, when I don't get my bath I take it out on the slaves. So grease up your baby for a ball on the hill, I'll polish them rockets now and swallow those pills and say ....
Ahhhhhh .... Spacelord mutha mutha.
-- Monster Magnet --

It is offensive and ruinous, something to be avoided at all cost, for a nonbeliever to hear a Christian talking about these things as though with Christian writings as his source, and yet so nonsensically and with such obvious error that the nonbeliever can hardly keep from laughing.
-- St. Augustine --

I laugh a lot in the Evolution/Creation section of this forum.
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FGG
Posted: Jul 23 2009, 04:13 AM


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QUOTE (flyingbuttressman @ Jul 21 2009, 01:17 PM)
That would be pretty awesome. Would that be a moon trebuchet?

It's called a mass driver. An electromagnetic launch system. Since there is no atmosphere once the projectile (bucket-o-moon-dust) is up to speed it will continue anywhere you aim it.

It's very cheap to launch stuff from the moons surface compared to the earths surface.

FGG


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AlexG
Posted: Jul 23 2009, 04:24 AM


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QUOTE (FGG @ Jul 22 2009, 11:13 PM)
It's called a mass driver. An electromagnetic launch system. Since there is no atmosphere once the projectile (bucket-o-moon-dust) is up to speed it will continue anywhere you aim it.

It's very cheap to launch stuff from the moons surface compared to the earths surface.

FGG

See The Moon Is A Harsh Mistress by Robert Heinlein (1965)


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Empress Palpatine
Posted: Jul 23 2009, 04:55 PM


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Here is the latest scoop on the planning of a Mars mission:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32091456/ns/te..._science-space/


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Quantum_Conundrum
Posted: Jul 30 2009, 05:24 PM


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I think we should both go to the moon and to mars, and the sooner the better.
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flyingbuttressman
Posted: Jul 30 2009, 08:35 PM


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QUOTE (Quantum_Conundrum @ Jul 30 2009, 12:24 PM)
I think we should both go to the moon and to mars, and the sooner the better.

Why?
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Harry Costas
Posted: Jul 31 2009, 08:52 AM


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G'day

Why????????

Beacuse it's there.

Because "MAN" has always gone where no man has gone before, to explore places far far away.

Because one day "MAN" will need to move away from planet Earth.

It's only a matter of TIME.




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flyingbuttressman
Posted: Jul 31 2009, 01:15 PM


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QUOTE (Harry Costas @ Jul 31 2009, 03:52 AM)
Beacuse it's there.

Because "MAN" has always gone where no man has gone before, to explore places far far away.

Because one day "MAN" will need to move away from planet Earth.

It's only a matter of TIME.

If you could move to the middle of the Sahara desert, would you? Would you move there because "it's there?"

There is currently very little benefit to visiting these places outside of scientific discovery, which robots can handle very well.

However, if we invent some kind of mass-driver/rail-gun that we can launch into space and land on the Moon/Mars then mining becomes a viable option. We are still waiting on a more efficient means of space travel. Until that day, there's no real point in sending people to Mars or the Moon.
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flyingbuttressman
Posted: Jul 31 2009, 01:22 PM


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QUOTE (Dr Venske @ Jul 31 2009, 08:18 AM)
Yes, but did we really land on the moon? Really really?

In my honest opinion all the nasa footage makes me laugh.

Your level of retardation is OVER 9000!!!!
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uaafanblog
Posted: Jul 31 2009, 01:48 PM


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QUOTE (Dr Venske @ Jul 31 2009, 01:18 PM)
In my honest opinion all the nasa footage makes me laugh.

In your opinion it makes you laugh?

What sort of STUPIDITY is that?

In my opinion it doesn't make you laugh ...
In my opinion you're an amorphously formed turd floating in a ***-stew ...
In my opinion that should make everyone else laugh ...
In my opinion you should run away from here and never come back ...
In my opinion you're most likely a waste of human skin ...
In my opinion you suffer from delusions ...

Getting the whole milieux?


--------------------
I been stuffed in your pocket for the last hundred days, when I don't get my bath I take it out on the slaves. So grease up your baby for a ball on the hill, I'll polish them rockets now and swallow those pills and say ....
Ahhhhhh .... Spacelord mutha mutha.
-- Monster Magnet --

It is offensive and ruinous, something to be avoided at all cost, for a nonbeliever to hear a Christian talking about these things as though with Christian writings as his source, and yet so nonsensically and with such obvious error that the nonbeliever can hardly keep from laughing.
-- St. Augustine --

I laugh a lot in the Evolution/Creation section of this forum.
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Harry Costas
Posted: Aug 1 2009, 02:03 AM


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G'day from the land of ozzzzzz

Sahara desert

Some people are simple minded.

The moon is not the subject, the subject is to develop the ability to survive out there for millions of years.

Now to get that ability you need to develop skills to do so.

If you look at the formation of stars and their phase changes, one day our Sun will be the death of us.

Some people are saying lets wait and see!!!!!!!!!!

Others are out there doing it.

Oh!!! Yes there is other dangers.
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