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> Why Do People Think That Science Is A Conspiracy?, Do scientists look suspicious?
magpies
Posted: Jun 14 2009, 08:44 AM


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Did they ever really trust anyone?
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tlocity
Posted: Jun 14 2009, 08:50 AM


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People think science is a conspiracy because science has moved in an irrational direction. Reason and logic is the hallmark of true science. A science of reason and logic is understandable by everyone that cares to learn. Science now look more like black magic with statement about QM or the nature of time.
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Grasshopper
Posted: Jun 14 2009, 05:28 PM


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QUOTE (flyingbuttressman @ Jun 11 2009, 09:52 PM)
I just finished reading "Finding Darwin's God" by Kennith Miller. He addressed many of the same issues (fear of science) but chalked it up to science's exclusion of god. As an atheist, I didn't agree with some of his conclusions, but overall, it was a great introduction to the field of biology for the average religious layperson.


It is my humble opinion that Ken Miller does a better job of defending evolution than almost anyone.


Witness this video:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JVRsWAjvQSg

Just stomach the opening prayer. It's not that bad. One can be a religious scientist. But watch how Miller tears IDiot theory a new one. laugh.gif

This post has been edited by Grasshopper on Jun 14 2009, 05:30 PM
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AlexG
Posted: Jun 14 2009, 06:23 PM


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QUOTE
Reason and logic is the hallmark of true science.


No, the hallmark of true science is the accurate description and prediction of the workings of the physical universe. If those workings do not conform to reason and logic, so much the worse for reason and logic.


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To another universe, where the rules are simpler
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"God not only plays dice with the Universe, He rolls them where you can't see" - N. Bohr


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MjolnirPants
Posted: Jun 14 2009, 06:24 PM


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Flyingbuttressman:
QUOTE (tlocity @ Jun 14 2009, 03:50 AM)
People think science is a conspiracy because science has moved in an irrational direction. Reason and logic is the hallmark of true science. A science of reason and logic is understandable by everyone that cares to learn. Science now look more like black magic with statement about QM or the nature of time.

Do you see what I mean? Here's a classic example of a guy in the first group I earlier mentioned. He's so sure of his own infallibility that he calls that human endeavor which most fully embodies the concepts of reason and logic itself unreasonable and illogical.

QUOTE (AlexG)
No, the hallmark of true science is the accurate description and prediction of the workings of the physical universe. If those workings do not conform to reason and logic, so much the worse for reason and logic.

I disagree here, actually. I don't see anything illogical or unreasonable about non-deterministic physics. A "may happen" statement can be just as logical as a "will happen" statement, and a "probably will" statement is just as logical. The fact that a theory is unintuitive doesn't make it illogical. In fact, anything which can be described or modeled mathematically is by it's very nature, logical. Mathematics is, after all, an expression of logic.

This post has been edited by MjolnirPants on Jun 14 2009, 06:28 PM


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AlexG
Posted: Jun 14 2009, 06:29 PM


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People think science is a conspiracy because most people don't understand science and what science tells them. The only two reasons for this lack of understanding are:

1 People are too ignorant and/or stupid to understand.

or

2 They're not being told.

Most people find 2 to be more palatable.


--------------------
Its the way nature is!
If you dont like it, go somewhere else....
To another universe, where the rules are simpler
Philosophically more pleasing, more psychologically easy
Prof Richard Fyenman (1979) .....

God does not roll dice with the Universe" - A. Einstein

"God not only plays dice with the Universe, He rolls them where you can't see" - N. Bohr


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buttershug
Posted: Jun 14 2009, 07:53 PM


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A characteristic of conspiracies is a certain cohesiveness.

But in science the cohesiveness is not a result of conspiracy. It's a result of a systematic search for accuracy.


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If you want to keep believing in the Wizard, never look behind the curtain. You will be disappointed.
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sporacle
Posted: Jun 16 2009, 06:22 AM


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QUOTE (buttershug @ Jun 14 2009, 07:53 PM)
A characteristic of conspiracies is a certain cohesiveness.

But in science the cohesiveness is not a result of conspiracy. It's a result of a systematic search for accuracy.

Yay

The long term, extensive and careful efforts of countless scientists has produced a comprehensive and integrally related model of reality (certainly not complete and there is a lot more to be discovered). Understanding the interrelatedness requires grunt work, and people unwilling or unable to do the hard work may see just enough to think it must be a conspiracy.

The shortsightedness of the "scientist conspiracy" ideas is usually obvious in the lack of awareness of the huge volume of scientific literature. It would be rather difficult to organize a conspiracy among hundreds of thousands of independent scientists laugh.gif

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magpies
Posted: Jun 17 2009, 01:07 AM


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Orrrr it could be that science leads to stuff like the A-bomb, thought control devices aka TV, and biochemical weapon stuff.
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buttershug
Posted: Jun 17 2009, 01:57 AM


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Which are commissioned by religious type people and used by such.


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If you want to keep believing in the Wizard, never look behind the curtain. You will be disappointed.
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gmilam
Posted: Jun 17 2009, 04:59 AM


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QUOTE (magpies @ Jun 16 2009, 08:07 PM)
Orrrr it could be that science leads to stuff like the A-bomb, thought control devices aka TV, and biochemical weapon stuff.

Knowledge is neither good nor evil - it's people that are the problem.

(Oh - and TV's have an "off" button.)


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flyingbuttressman
Posted: Jun 17 2009, 01:27 PM


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I think the case is that people like magpies are so absurdly confident in their own opinions that they cannot be convinced by petty things like facts, evidence and proof.

Once you have convinced yourself that there's a conspiracy, there is little hope to be taken seriously.


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Mekigal
Posted: Apr 26 2012, 07:05 PM


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There is a conspiracy . I am a conspirator my self . I do it for selfish reasons . So my kids can get a leg up or at least a foot sweep.
I do believe there are more conspirators out there conspiring right now. Warriors of love that conspire are my favorite conspirators. There everywhere . So in the deepest sense Science conspires . To seek what is true and what is false. The information that comes out of it may eliminate a few occupations in the end , but that takes a long time to happen . So I think it is more indirect consequence. Not like science directly sabotaged your business. More of an indirect consequence . It feels like you did it on purpose when it is your job becoming obsolete. Displacement is like that . Think of how the hunter Gatherers of the world feel . Them $##&* agies ruined my hunt !!
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