Collins: Why this scientist believes in God, National Human Genome Research Institute

Link

That is one man's opinion. You can find many more scientists who can safely deny all religions as clinging to the past indoctrinations and brain-washings of outmoded 1st century belief systems. One look at this "creation museum" will convince people of the kooks rife with false beliefs on this planet: javascript:cnnVideo('play','/video/bestoftv/2007/04/03/foreman.creationism.museum.cnn','2009/04/02'). Even the Chimps deny this B.S. http://www.lexicorps.com/wallace.gif

Please take a look at how rational, reasoning people view this at: http://www.edge.org.

http://www.falafelsex.com/sounds/GodWill.mp3 (()) Listen and enjoy this song!

Actually, I just posted the article to provide material to comment over. I often here from theists how such scientist who work on cutting edge technologies and pursuits are the typical evilutionsts bent on fulfilling some twisted atheistic “global view” mission.

And I already have that particular MP3.

GeneSplicer,

I just checked the link. It is an interesting article.

Thanks, Derek

I couldn't stop laughing when I first heard that song! So... playing the devil's advocate? God will...! Have you checked out http://www.edge.org.? They constantly add new material from conferences and meetings with scientists and authors. I've had the luck to attend a Jane Goodall lecture and a book signing talk by Jared Diamond recently. I would have loved to meet Carl Sagan. There is no "agenda" or mission, just reasoning people reaching rational decisions!

Photojack,

You may like a song by Voltaire titled God Thinks.

The posting was an earnest attempt to foster discussion. Thanks for reminding me of that song. It has been a while. Thank you also for the Edge website link. I’ll have to add it to my “sources” pool.

YouTube Fan video link God Thinks

Derek,

You are welcome.

This post has been edited by GeneSplicer on Apr 5 2007, 05:24 PM

I find nothing wrong with Collins' theology. He likes the idea of a creator of the universe and that the being responding to his prayers is that creator.

He's clever enough to know when science and theology conflict. For example, he doesn't hold any position other than Evolution being fact (all his theology is separated); he also realises enough about biology to know that cloning research is a different field than normal ESC research, and have separate moral issues (i.e., we should be doing research into cloning for therapeutic purposes).

I am glad to hear some of the more rational believers starting to speak up.

Belief in a "god of some sort" is compatible with science. But people have to be willing to accept that their religious texts could be wrong, or at the very least symbolic.

Thanks for the "God Thinks" link. I had never heard that one before. (I have heard the other one. A friend of mine actually sings it in his shows.)

This post has been edited by gmilam on Apr 5 2007, 05:50 PM

I like the way this conversation is evolving. Yes, shameless pun, but there you have it.

I get so tired of the view that discussions such as this has to break down to the diametrically opposed theocratic Christians and atheistic evilutionists.

Here are some free Voltaire comedy songs. Definitely not works safe and they have nothing to do with religion. Enjoy

I am glad someone mentioned Dr. Collins, as he is someone I have alluded to a few times in the past.

He actually did a much longer interview in Discover Magazine.

All too often people make the assumption that Biblical Fundamentalism is Christian Theology or dogma. This is false, while it is the religious belief of a certain sect of Christianity, it is far from being standard Christian dogma.
It is even funnier, because in today's polarized environment many religious groups that would normally not side with a literal-interpretation Sola Scriptura dogma have fought against science.

Collins speaks out a great deal about this rift and this polarization. I highly recommend the article
Discover Article w/ Dr. Collins

I don't think any of us here is cold enough to want to banish all religion from planet earth. I think Dr. Collins, and my mother are both good examples of how far they take their beliefs.
The difference between people like these and fundies is that one group is actually intelligent enough to not deny evidence, and to form the basis of their belief around obvious science. This is in a sense true humanity? A little bit of logic and a little bit of belief.

PuckSR, thanks for the link to the discovery interview. Good read.

I pulled these two Q&A's from the article. Thought it would make a good discussion point. I find it funny how he separates religion and its misuse, but immediately places the blame on Stalin and Mao's athiest regimes as the cause of "the worst examples of human carnage". Its interesting that he can separate the misuse of religion but directly blame athiesm (or at least thats how it read to me) when just as likely it was people using whatever they could for their own purpose. I guess even intelligent people can make logical fallacies. The rest of the article was really good I though!

There is this idea among outsiders that because someone works in the field of science that they must be equally well educated in all fields of science so their opinions are worth listening to on any subject.

From past debates I have found that people often have a good knowledge of science OR religion but very rarely both. A scientist with the knowledge of an Einstein may only have a child's knowledge of religion so though a scientist what he has to say on religion is totally worthless.

I concur and add to that:
Many times they're ignorant on both levels like yourself.

Just kidding. [You got to admit you set yourself up for that one]

Kaneda, how's it going? Christian or not, I hope you and your family have a good Easter Holiday weekend.

Alas, reading through the article, it is obvious that Collins deviates from the rational, scientific mindset of the title he has for the usual believer claptrap.

[QUOTE]I had to admit that the science I loved so much was powerless to answer questions such as "What is the meaning of life?" "Why am I here?" "Why does mathematics work, anyway?" "If the universe had a beginning, who created it?" "Why are the physical constants in the universe so finely tuned to allow the possibility of complex life forms?" "Why do humans have a moral sense?" "What happens after we die?"[/QUOTE]

Couldn't answer, or does science give unpalatable answers, answers that do not give fearful people (patients) warm fuzzies? What part of the scientist in Collins jumps to "It's God!" when he comes to the gap rather than calling an unanswered question an unanswered question?

[QUOTE] My earlier atheist's assertion that "I know there is no God" emerged as the least defensible. As the British writer G.K. Chesterton famously remarked, "Atheism is the most daring of all dogmas, for it is the assertion of a universal negative."[QUOTE]

What part of the scientist in him creates a strawman of atheism and an argument from ignorance to argue for the existence of God?

[QUOTE]I had always assumed that faith was based on purely emotional and irrational arguments, and was astounded to discover, initially in the writings of the Oxford scholar C.S. Lewis and subsequently from many other sources, that one could build a very strong case for the plausibility of the existence of God on purely rational grounds...[/QUOTE]

A rational argument that is never actually made...

[QUOTE] But reason alone cannot prove the existence of God. Faith is reason plus revelation, and the revelation part requires one to think with the spirit as well as with the mind. You have to hear the music, not just read the notes on the page. Ultimately, a leap of faith is required.[/QUOTE]

And here Collins busts his nut of emotion and irrationality in the face of science. Yes yes, a scientist who claims that evidence for God only works if you first believe in God. That is exactly not science.

Who is Collins lying to, himself or everyone else? He can, apologetically, have his faith and be a scientist, but presenting himself as a scientist who came to the rational conclusion of God is BS.

[QUOTE]For me, that leap came in my 27th year, after a search to learn more about God's character led me to the person of Jesus Christ. Here was a person with remarkably strong historical evidence of his life, who made astounding statements about loving your neighbor, and whose claims about being God's son seemed to demand a decision about whether he was deluded or the real thing. After resisting for nearly two years, I found it impossible to go on living in such a state of uncertainty, and I became a follower of Jesus.[/QUOTE]

Wow. A more plastically packaged, thoughtless answer we could not have had. I am dubious he is telling the truth of his conversion. Lying fer the Lord!

I'm sure the scientifically illiterate population are bubbling over with validation that faith is a superior form of understanding the world. Pathetic gits.

** Errr, why aren't the tags working?

This post has been edited by Pan on Apr 6 2007, 10:56 PM