The Quantum Tunneling Teleporter, The Key To Teleportation?

A while back I posted about how the transporter in Star Trek operates and why it would never work. Here is the link:


http://forum.physorg.com/index.php?showtopic=904


Any procedure that converts matter to energy would be deadly and reconstructing a person from this energy would result in a clone, not the original. In addition, the disassembly of crew members at the atomic level is not a viable option either due to the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle. However, there may be a way to teleport a human: quantum tunneling.


There is an article on the net about quantum physics and in one section, the author mentions about quantum teleportation. Here is a quote from the author:


"Teleportation: As the probability wave suggests, you can get from Point A to Point C without necessarily passing through Point B. Small particles can jump from one location to another without actually moving through space between points, which is sometimes called a 'quantum leap'. In theory, this could be extended to larger particles."


And here is the link:


http://www.rotten.com/library/religion/quantum-physics/


In quantum tunneling a particle can bypass a barrier and appear on the other side without traveling thru it. The process is responsible for radioactive decay of elements where an alpha will tunnel out of the nucleus of Uranium atom and then under go beta decay. Electronic use quantum tunneling of electron in certain transitor (such as a tunneling diode).


Now quantum tunneling is due to the fact that particles have a wave function. This wave function is the possibility of a particle being at specific location. If you could control this possibility wave, you can transport a particle to any location that it could travel to or will travel to. Do this with a person, and you could teleport him without turning him to energy or breaking him down into his basic molecules and beaming him.


All you would need is to know his wave function (yes, people have a wave function, and even the universe can be express as one) and alter it in a manner (how I have no idea) that alter his possibility of his location to place him where you wish him to be. He would suddenly be at that location in a instant.


All that is require is finding a way to manipulate the wave function of the particles involved. We do this all the time to beams of particles like photon and electrons. Take the double slit experiment for example. By closing and opening a single slit we can determine whether particle like a photon, proton, neutron or electron behave like wave or steams of particles.


Not only can we effect the path a particle can take, but it actually impacts on the target without applying a physical force to the particle itself. Basically, we are shaping the possibility wave in a manner that defies common logic and how this is done is one of the mysteries of modern physics.


What causes the quantum wave form to collaspe determines when or where a particle appears. We know when we attempt to measure a particle it happens, but the mechanism of how it happens is unknown. If we knew how the wave function is force to collaspe then we may be able to effect the outcome.


We could at will make a collection of particles like a human behaves and then change the location by forcing the wave function to collaspe, with the possibility that he is some where else. The chance of any particle under QT is very rare. In order to actually teleport an object we would need to work with the the combine waveform of the object. Treating the macro object as a single particle. This is not unknown since there are cases of macro quantum tunneling of molecules and collection of particles.


Using quantum tunneling as a means of teleportation depends on being able to control the quantum waveform of an object directly. As it stands, we do not know what kind of wave (whether if a real wave or just not) it is exactly, but if we could then the whole chance thing goes out the window. We can alter the chance of an object being on Mars instead of being on Earth and it would appear there.


All real cases of quantum tunneling is over small distants like nanometers, but in theory if one had the ability to alter quantum wave forms like we can do with sound waves, the change in distant would only depend on the amount of energy needed to perform the change. The fact is that we usually alter wave forms through the use of resonent chamber, alter possibilities waves may require the use of ghost particles.


Ghost particles was a result of a method of looking at interaction of subatomic partcles called scatter matrix. Basically it looks at the input of particles into a collision and assigns them values according to charge, spin, baryon number, etc and finally the possibilitily of this particle actually being created in the reaction. Some outputs would have a negative possibility, which indicated a particle called a ghost. These ghost could alter the possibility of other particles. These ghosts are basically what killed S matrix as a tool of particle physicists, but ghost do still appear in many attempt to create super gravity theories or grand unification theories.


So it would most likely be ghost radiation that would be used. Ghost particles and state are the subject of many papers on theorical physics especially involving quantum gravity. While many physicists cannot deal with particles with negative possiblitilies, this should not be a problem. As it stands, negative energy and antimatter were concepts that made physicist uncomfortable too. Therefore, ghost radiation seems to be the best candidate. Such ghost particles would allow us to alter the possibilty waves of systems of particle.


What does everybody else thinks?


Whitestar

Hi Whitestar,

I am presently following an idea of using the Aharonov-Bohm effect to create a sort of "Stargate". I have been in your discussions before but I had an "epiphany" regarding the "effect' and I think that charged particles such as electrons, protons or antiparticles could be passed through the "Tonomura Stargate"... umm... my dumb name... after the TV show of the same name (obviously without any disruption) to emerge through a "tuned" and "terminated" identical "Stargate" many de Broglie wavelengths away.

The advantage of this idea is that particles are material objects and while photons have been made to perform these "tunneling" gymnastics this involved "negative refractive index" thru solid blocks of metamaterials or longer wavelength microwave dipole arrays such as the "Boeing Cube" (fronting picture there).
Reversing Light : Negative Refraction See illustration on page 6 of that article.

I could philosophically (mentally) stretch this concept to potentially include "meta-properties" of macroscopic objects. If these entities could be "stimulated" to have significant de Broglie wavelengths and then passed into the "tuned cavity" as meta-charged particles, you could be teleported in relative safety using mostly "off the shelf" technology. I really don't think that the Universe cares if you give "stuff" metaproperties or if they have natural properties. There are lots of examples of quantum mechanics being very forgiving about macroscopic quantum behavior such as in SQUID's.

The thread is found here...
PhysOrgForum Science, Physics and Technology Discussion Forums -> Relativity, Quantum Mechanics and New Theories -> Quantum Entanglement
Quantum Entanglement Thread
You will need to go to recent usage of this thread. The thread was "trashed" last year and actually involved a lot more than what is seen there but it was mostly lost. All the recent activity is what the fuss is about.

As you can see, I am no fan of "Duck Dodgers Disintegration" teleport techniques. I don't think "assembly" would be possible (alive at least). It might work on a burger and fries where the tissue does not have to be "alive" and a "little" denaturing is acceptable eh! Also the huge amounts of MC^2 energy are a formidable obstacle. There are probably better ways to "order out".

This "force field" approach is at least a confirmed phenomena and works by topologically modifying spacetime itself and not a particle to particle interaction (at least not in our 4D space???). The fact that this has been around for neigh on 20 years is the surprise to me. I also like the fact that "with a bit of difficulty" you can step through an actual physical orifice and be teleported as a "particle" to somewhere else.

There are probable interesting connections with quantum entanglement here as well. This vector and scalar potential is something very very deep and I think could be of "great" significance to the future. There is no instrument available to measure this "stuff" especially when there is no electric or magnetic fields involved.

Any comments on this? Any philosophical objections you can think of?

Cheers

Hi Good Elf.


Thanks for your response. Actually, I do have a few questions regarding your theory on teleportation. You mentioned about a forcefield that has modified spacetime.


1) Where did you acquire this information?


2) What source is it from?


3) As I understand it, you would be teleporting as a whole, as opposed to being disassembled at the atomic level, correct?


4) Is a receiving station required, especially if you wanted to teleport back to where you came from?


Whitestar

Hi Whitestar,

yup... I will show you where this is (all internet resources). There is nothing special about the interpretation of the Aharonov-Bohm effect.
Whitestar Posted on Mar 24 2005, 02:35 AM

I will list a few resources for this phenomena.
http://rugth30.phys.rug.nl/quantummechanics/ab.htm
http://scienceworld.wolfram.com/physics/Ah...BohmEffect.html
http://www.tau.ac.il/~quantum/publicat/topo-effects.html
http://www.aias.us/pub/a-bohm.pdf
Very Important Paper....
http://philsci-archive.pitt.edu/archive/00000404/01/Ab.ps
Discusses the concept theoretically to show its "special" place...
If you cant read this last postscript document and don't know how to proceed you can email me directly with your e-mail address and I will e-mail you a pdf version of the document. My e-mail address is walshjj@optusnet.com.au
http://world.std.com/~sweetser/quaternions...fied_field.html
This next one is very important too as a discussion....
http://www.ensmp.fr/aflb/AFLB-26j/aflb26jp055.pdf

I would point to this source document that alerted me to its significance in the first place...
http://www.hqrd.hitachi.co.jp/em/abe.cfm
It was Tonomura and his colleagues who first demonstrated this apparently "impossible" phenomena in 1986.
He first showed it with a simplified version and won the Nishina Memorial Prize in 1982
Later in 1986 he clenched it with a more decisive experiment that seemed to quieten all naysayers...for this Tonomura was awarded the Asahi Prize in 1987, the Japan Academy Prize and Imperial Prize in 1991, the Benjamin Franklin Medal in Physics in 1999 and selected as "Persons of Cultural Merits"in 2002. Today it is apparently a very well known result.... unfortunately not to me! I only recently "woke up" and I now understand what the excitement is all about (I think!).

Well... that would be my possible extension to it. This special "gedanken experiment" is my only contribution to this idea. The good bit is that you can do the experiment now with "off the shelf" components (as it were). This special topology leads to the teleport "channel" that the simpler experiment would not lend itself to. In "principle" I don't see any objection to teleporting a macroscopic particle providing it has the right de Broglie wavelength due to speed or some other factor and is charged. Certainly electrons and atomically charged particles would be "easy" to teleport (...well sort of). I want to try it on electrons first.

For this to work at all the "transmission line" will need to be terminated at both ends with a "Tonomura Stargate" and the phase offsets would have to be matched. Have a guess why I called it "Stargate"?

The right phase advance and retard would be "dialed" up on each end. Particles would enter through the eyelet at one end and exit through the eyelet at the other end properly "dephased". Certainly the reverse could occur by reversing the phases at both end and sending "stuff" back the other way. The intervening space would be "tunneled through" by all the particles. The phase each particle entered with would be the exact phase the particles would exit with if the settings were correct. This phenomena has a parallel in the area of photonics and negative refractive index optical metamaterials and has been termed "optical antimatter" by Pendry who is the main advocate and the source of the new impetus in this technology. Check out the illustration on the bottom of page six of this reference.
Reversing Light Negative Refraction by Pendry and Smith
All of this has a link to a far more general effect check out this paper...
The resemblances in mathematical structures between the optical constants...
an interesting paper by Jian Qi Shen where the abstract says...

I would draw a direct parallel to this phenomena in photonics and quantum tunneling of photons and the charged particle tunneling of the "Tonomura Stargate" provided it is set up the way I suggest.

This "force field" - I call it that since it is apparently "true" action at a distance unlike particle to particle interactions - is a local "electromagnetic field free" null vector or scalar potential influence, more "primitive" than electromagnetism and mysteriously unable to be measured with our instruments. Beside the particles being "travelers" they occupy little or no part in the experiment other than to detect the "influence" in spacetime and needs to be specially constructed to be seen at all.

It is a totally mysterious thing but has been demonstrated as a practical fact and I am willing to run with that and "do the experiment". This should be easy and it is a "desktop" experiment. No vast accelerators or black holes required. I think it will be "singularly unspectacular" when it teleports particles across space.

Does this help? I must say it took me completely by surprise and I feel a bit of an idiot at not understanding what this is all about long before this. Remember I am just the elf around here. This vector and scaler potential stuff has a "big" future and is the direction of really big things in the near future. I am sure this is intimately related to quantum entanglement and to zero point energy. I am also dead sure this is related to antisymmetric manipulations in the topology of spacetime and to Einsteins "original" Unified Field Theory (as shown above in a reference). Look here for more... http://forum.physorg.com/index.php?showtop...st=0&#entry8953

Its a "boatload" of new ideas to handle but it is a lot better than trying to tackle "string theory" head on.

Cheers

Hello

First time poster, I hope you can help me.

I am writing a science fiction story and want to get the science "right" when it comes to FTL travel.

Essentially FTL travel would be a functional time machine but I thought a good workaround might involve negative energy.

The two ideas I had were linked "stargates" and a singularity-generated wormhole.
Both would not work too close to a gravitational well.

The stargate would have to be constructed just outside the two solar systems you wish to connect. The paired gates would be constructed simultaneously, all materials carefully linked as the gates are built.
The linking is performed by twin linked singularities, that in theory could teleport matter between them. Event horizon rips anything apart, so nothing could survive transmission by the raw singularities.

A loop of negative energy is formed in the last stages of construction, the singularities incorporated into the superstructure, doubling as a power sources. Would this qualify as a superstring?

Huge amounts of energy would be required to sustain the linked negative fields.
I currently just have the gate shedding heat into normal space, with the understanding that alot of energy/matter is being shed that is not easily detectable.

Would such a device give off a lot of electro-magnetic radiation?
Would emitted neutrinos/dark matter/exotic particals (bosons?) be sufficient?

I also have the device effectively shielded when in operation. Space around it is warped in such a way that any object on a collision course would inevitably be steered into the negative zone.


The other method is the Singularity-generated wormhole, kind of related to a warp drive. A spaceship uses a captive singularity to warp space and "jump" vast distances in interstellar space. The disadvantage of this method is it is even more sensitive to gravitational distortion than the linked gates, and you could not jump closer than (quarter lightyear, eighth lightyear?) to a star.

Both methods would require conventional (impulse) engines to complete their journeys to the destination planets. Obviously, the capital-intensive construction of the stargates would be quicker, and the ships would not need the additional mass of a singularity and its containment. (I have also postulated that a sinularity-equipted ship would not be able to use a stargate due to gravitational interference.)

I know this is a very unusual request. Any feedback, even negative feedback, would be helpful. I have a very thick skin and can take criticism.

Well, the thing with theorys is that their called theorys because no one can really prove or disprove them.. so technically, you could write whatever you wanted.

Does my comment help? who cares, we're not really here!

hmm, i've just thought.. couldn't you compair quantum tunneling to like, the "miniscus" (i couldn't find it in the dictionary) of a water droplet? A droplet will hang from your finger, but then touch just the surface against another droplet or the surface of a body of water, and it gets instantly sucked away..

i dont know if thats got anything to do with anything..

Hi professor andy and Van_Trump,

professor andy Posted on Mar 28 2005, 11:38 PM

A theory is no use if it could neither be proved nor disproved (there are those who disagree but I believe in the scientific method). The advantage of this device (the design above... a "Tonomura Stargate") Good Elf Posted on Mar 24 2005, 09:55 AM
This is a "practical" experiment that can be proved or disproved "easily" since this does not require any wormholes in spacetime or "high energy" accelerators. These particles will quantum tunnel similar to the electrons in a Tunnel Diode but instead of a couple of microns at most this could potentially tunnel "light years". That is because it is an open "aperture" terminated transmission line.

There are similar effects using "Photonic" Crystals of doped Synthetic Alexandrite. This allows photons through but would obviously stop "particles" - its a block of "glass". This variation using the Aharanov-Bohm Effect has no solid intervening materials. Instead it is able to distort spacetime itself (action at a distance) and produce the "virtual" negative refractive properties in spacetime for high speed de Broglie wavelength charged particles at TV Tube acceleration velocities. This is a desktop experiment. It is completely "do-able" provided the particles are electrons (at first). It is sort of like those teleport/stargate systems in "Babylon 5" where a high speed spaceship enters the "Gate" and is teleported to "where ever". The proviso is that the spaceships are travelling at appreciable velocity and enter the gate "charged".

There are other ways to tunnel across space other than gravitationally warping spacetime. The alternatively is to warp spacetime “electromagnetically” 10^41 more effectively using the Aharanov-Bohm Effect. I am hoping this is also a connection that may lead to Unified Field Theory based in Proto-Electromagnetism (vector and scaler potential) or so called Gauge (force) Fields. It has the benefit of already being proven. At least the first "bit".

professor andy Posted on Mar 28 2005, 11:45 PM

In this case it is more like "space cancellation" as the literature describes for "Photonic" systems... so called "optical antimatter" (Google it) - any distance can be tunnelled (for any number of wavelengths) provided there is no intervening "material" to block the propagation of the de Broglie "particle wave". I guess you realize that while it is "propagating" as a quantum wave, it will not be possible to see it.

Cheers

We will definately discover technology that nullifies heisenburgs uncertainty before we develop anything capable of teleportation.

heisenburgs uncertainty only exists because when we measure one aspect of a particle we are unable to tell what affect we will have on other aspects of that particle.

Eventually we will be able to calculate what affect our measurements will have on every aspect of a particle and account for it.

Hi Michael A. Will,

I couldn't agree more. Already optical systems can resolve almost without a limit (limited only by human imperfection) using photonic crystals and negative refractive index. This was an unwritten impossibility for decades. This is utilizing evanescent waves that previously were lost to normal optical systems.

This and other properties has shown that the heisenberg uncertainty limit is an "operational" movable feast as is every other apparent quantum phenomena of particles to boot (not quite proven there yet). They are not locked in stone you know. Quantum rules are not quantum laws and meta-properties are possible that can confer strange attributes to prosaic systems such as the SQUID or the Quantum Hall Effect. I could also mention other properties that are open to "fiddling" about with.

Cheers

Good Elf

You have convinced me to use the AB effect for at least one of my FTL space drives.

http://arxiv.org/PS_cache/hep-th/pdf/0503/0503034.pdf

This article seems to imply a monopole would facilitate my ficticious interstellar drive. Or maybe the reverse. Or perhaps it simply clarifies that the existence of monopoles does not contradict the AB effect.

The math is clearly beyond me. Just one physics course and one math course in university. Though the crystal chemistry course may as well have been called physics. And this was 25 years ago, lol.

Hi Van_Trump,

You picked one hell of a paper to illustrate AB Effect. I would have tried something else because magnetic monopoles give me a "glassy" eye. I have a "sudden loss of consciousness". Afterwards I don't remember anything (as it should be). Just a joke - I don't believe in magnetic monopoles.

I have been looking around and I have found two more links that really put the AB Effect and the Aharonov-Cashier Effect (which has also been proven ) for neutral beams of neutrons, into context. I will put the links here :
Hidden Variable Problem
This a most peculiar link so I will include some text here from it...

I would point out that the following paper shows that the AB Effect is proven and is not going away as this previous extract hopes to dismiss by word alone. He also plays the man not the ball as they say, to give added support to his dismissal - what do you think?. Obviously a Communist and a Religious Fruitcake so the experimental result is wrong. Two out of three isn’t bad... but this is not Science. Remember he didn’t do any of the experiments... he just made the proposal. This original experiment by Tonomura was able to reduced the flux of particles (electrons) to one at a time (interference still occurred) so this clinched the “pure quantum wave” nature of this process and is definitely a "quantum" process not a mechanical effect on/or a guided particle.
The next paper shows a lot more about the practical nature of these phenomena and a number of related phenomena and the experiments that clinched them...
Practical Experiments Proving AB Effect
This is eminently readable (with a minimum of fuss). We see that the Aharonov-Bohm Effect acts on spacetime and is relatively indifferent to particle charge. There is no “guiding wave” for particles. There are only “de Broglie waves” and when it interacts it will be a “particle”. People will need to let go of the particle concept and “guiding waves”.

What I can say about all this is according to current experimental evidence that Quantum Theory is a "dead man walking". Aharonov-Bohm Effect is apparently the ultimate end of Quantum Theory as the ultimate source of understanding. There is a new kid on the block. It will take several decades to shake off the trappings of this cul-de-sac of history but ultimately there is another theory "whose feet I am not fit to kiss". So if you are thinking of a career in Quantum Mechanics... think twice.

The Aharonov-Bohm Effect Experiment is to the twenty-first Century what the Dual Slit Interference Effect Experiment was to the twentieth Century. A total revolution! Still to be appreciated for what it truly is.

Cheers

I remember in University being told that the pendulum was swinging away from Quantum Mechanics. My current job (to pay the bills when I'm not writing) is sales, so no worries about me becoming a Quantum Mechanical evangelist.

This concept of Vector Potential...interesting.

There is no such thing as a continuous field, just a space of infinitely small vector potentials.
We appear to observe the continuous field with our instruments, of course.

I am still trying to get my head around the idea of warping space using electromagnetic potential. It would seem fine-tuning is a lot easier than gravitational warping.

In special relativity, you combine magnetic potential with electric potential into the electromagnetic potential.
To successfully warp space, would you join scalar electric potential with vector magnetic potential or by join scalar magnetic potential with vector electric potential?

In terms of a colossal monstrosity of hardware sitting in outer space, which makes more sense?

Hi Van Trump,

Just a short one...

This Scaler and Vector Potential is a "proto-electromagnetic effect". Sometime called a Gauge Field in the literature. It is the field you have when you don't have a field. There really is no way to 'sense" this effect "absolutely". It might be the zero point energy??? Who really knows. If you have time varying potentials you will get fields. But you can have "stationary"potentials and this "dislocates" spacetime. You then accurately "tune" across the gap to match the "impedance" as it were. To teleport large distances it may actually take big machines. I don't know. I do know that to teleport small distances can be done on a desktop. This is technically the same as particle tunneling except over much larger distances. You just need the little superconductors with the permalloy solenoid cores. Not so easy to make. Have a look at that second article in my last post. That is very instructive. I only found that out today.

May have come the full circle. I think we are dealing with the Universe as a Hologram. Everything in it are simply wavelets echoing across spacetime. Every now and again there are interactions as if they were particles.

Cheers

POSTSCRIPT: I have made a comment in the forum that this is a sort of "holographic" Universe Effect where some "local" condition (the experiment) influences the "whole" Universe globally (Machian in the extreme). In the classic
form of the experiment with just the dual slit this indeed is what apparently happens. In the "superconducting loop" version of the experiment (Tomomora) the "influence" is confined to a 'sub-space" or volumetric channel. That is how my teleporter works. Of course it might not work. The experiment must be done to prove that this interpretation is "right" or "wrong". If right... It will be another nail in the coffin of Quantum Mechanics.

Good Elf

I have an old copy of Scientific American that talked about the universe as a hologram. I'll take a look at that when I get home.

Thought long and hard about your AB stargate. I think it might be possible to link entrance and exit by building one a mirror image of the other.
Conservation of energy means you have to pay back with interest. If one gate is warping space exactly the opposite of the other, would there not be a natural affinity between the two, to cancel out the deficit you have created in the universe?

I am assuming that in the far future construction techniques will overcome any engineering problems.

Do you have any thoughts about the geometry of the gates? Instead of the loop in the experiment maybe 3 interlocking loops, one for each spacial dimension?