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> Does God answer prayer?, Full story at http://www.physorg.com/news93105311.html
Good Elf
Posted: Apr 12 2007, 12:14 AM


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Hi "THEY", tikay, Physfan, DiamondJim et al,

QUOTE ("THEY")
Work beckons, must go for now. Scientific explanation for what I saw anyone? Or did prayer (possibly) work in this one situation????
The anecdotal evidence for improbable phenomena is high. Once it was "scientifically" universally assumed that "rocks" did not fall from the sky and instances of this occurrence were ridiculed as being the ramblings of country yokels... That is until a meteorite landed on the lawns of the French Royal Academy of Sciences. The ridicule stopped instantly. It is a long way from those "dark days" to the present where a significant amount of money is being constantly spent to track the "minor planets" in their eccentric orbits around our region of space, in the hope that we may be able to intervene in an "event" that could potentially end sentient life on our world permanently. Thank "g*d" we have Bruce Willis.

The scientific explanation must be allowed to come from an enlightened view of the Universe and not a view that all explanations must fit a classical interpretation of the World. In each and every case of these controversial discussions a million and one reasons are supplied just why these phenomena can't occur. The argument is usually based on very simplistic 19th Century View that the Universe is built like a jewelers timepiece and that we know the workings and everything must fit into this 'linear" view of reality where predictions we make using only the most unimaginative interpretation of reality will determine the outcomes of all phenomena. Of course the reality is we have absolutely no idea of the real nature that underlies this Quantum Universe. If our scientists are too conservative to stick their neck out and accept the consequences of some of their theories, how can any of these discussions reach any possible resolution that accommodates our best guess as to what is causing this "Synchronicity".
QUOTE (Wikipedia on Synchronicity)
One of Jung's favorite quotes on Synchronicity was from Through the Looking-Glass by Lewis Carroll, in which the White Queen says to Alice: "It's a poor sort of memory that only works backwards".
Wickipedia: Synchronicity


IMHO, as with Quantum Computers and with extra-dimensional theories of everything, there will be an acausal aspect of Nature that we are not able to account for using the simplistic "linear" model of our Universe. Our collective hubris betrays the inherent "primitive savage" behind our highly structured and politicized society to "put down" all non-believers. Despite a veneer of "Science", it is not the Scientific Method that is driving most people to support views and opinions in this and in other Forums (including the "popular" media)... It is a very parochial view of the World where everything has its place and a place for everything and anyone who challenges it is in for quite a bit of "trouble". You need only check out the Global Warming Debate or the reasons behind why half the American population do not believe in Evolution.

As to the answer to the questions posed above, I believe that Science will one day have a full and acceptable answer to many of these open questions and we will "sort of understand" why these ritual processes appear to work. I am also sure that the natural (not supernatural) reasons behind these phenomena will not be the current answers being proposed by various self-interested groups. Of course this is just my "faith" biggrin.gif

Cheers


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tikay
Posted: Apr 13 2007, 03:01 AM


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QUOTE (STAGGERBOT @ Apr 11 2007, 01:47 PM)
"Hmmmm, abortions for some, tiny american flags for others!" -Kang


If only future sight were easier! There would be no "population explosion" but for the faith woman places in the one she marrys, to help her raise the children they bear, to support them even in divorce, and make sure governments never need take up the financial responsibility, when they do not.
How about vasectomy's for irresponsible men who wish to sire offspring and then continue to act as if they were children. rolleyes.gif


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Good Elf
Posted: Apr 13 2007, 08:03 AM


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Hi Tikay, Staggerbot et al,

QUOTE (Tikay)
If only future sight were easier! There would be no "population explosion" but for the faith woman places in the one she marrys, to help her raise the children they bear, to support them even in divorce, and make sure governments never need take up the financial responsibility, when they do not.
How about vasectomy's for irresponsible men who wish to sire offspring and then continue to act as if they were children.
It would be nicer if we all began to understand that we are all responsible for the state of the World. I only hope that there will be some kind of World that our children's children's children will appreciate... "Good Stewards" should be preparing a place for them, not completely stuffing it up.

I can certainly see why people pray to a "g*d" since the world they find themselves in seems to not have anyone else here "paying attention". We should be planning for an ideal society instead we are scheming to exploit our fellow man as if he/she was a resource like iron ore or oil... and just as "expendable". It would seem our World gets the Governments the people deserve.

Many people might agree that "G*d" answers prayers and others might say that we are going to hear his answer "loud and clear" very soon... he he he! Tell me anyone... what is happening to the bees?
http://www.physorg.com/news95135881.html
Without pollination there will be no food and no forests, so why is nothing being done about this?

Cheer


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STAGGERBOT
Posted: Apr 13 2007, 04:06 PM


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QUOTE (tikay @ Apr 13 2007, 03:01 AM)
If only future sight were easier! There would be no "population explosion" but for the faith woman places in the one she marrys, to help her raise the children they bear, to support them even in divorce, and make sure governments never need take up the financial responsibility, when they do not.
How about vasectomy's for irresponsible men who wish to sire offspring and then continue to act as if they were children. rolleyes.gif

Yes, I'm sure that would get quite a few cheers and boos as well.

Here's a survey (I'm not a fan of survey's as I believe deception/self deception can skew the results so much...but anyway) on what people say they pray for.
Relationships and family rate high on the list, guess that makes sense...fertility rated on the list as well. I would have thought improving the world would rate higher....
Prayer Survey - Christians, Jews, Muslims
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tikay
Posted: Apr 13 2007, 06:28 PM


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QUOTE (Good Elf @ Apr 13 2007, 01:03 AM)
Hi Tikay, Staggerbot et al,

QUOTE (Tikay)
If only future sight were easier! There would be no "population explosion" but for the faith woman places in the one she marrys, to help her raise the children they bear, to support them even in divorce, and make sure governments never need take up the financial responsibility, when they do not.
How about vasectomy's for irresponsible men who wish to sire offspring and then continue to act as if they were children.
It would be nicer if we all began to understand that we are all responsible for the state of the World. I only hope that there will be some kind of World that our children's children's children will appreciate... "Good Stewards" should be preparing a place for them, not completely stuffing it up.

I can certainly see why people pray to a "g*d" since the world they find themselves in seems to not have anyone else here "paying attention". We should be planning for an ideal society instead we are scheming to exploit our fellow man as if he/she was a resource like iron ore or oil... and just as "expendable". It would seem our World gets the Governments the people deserve.

Many people might agree that "G*d" answers prayers and others might say that we are going to hear his answer "loud and clear" very soon... he he he! Tell me anyone... what is happening to the bees?
http://www.physorg.com/news95135881.html
Without pollination there will be no food and no forests, so why is nothing being done about this?

Cheer

I wouldn't think that "Nothing" is being done about the bees, it seems a fairly recent discovery and the solutions will take time to concieve of and then to implement. I can't believe that nothing will be done by agriculture organizations, goverments, and farmers...by the collective, since this is a pretty important problem.

Ultimately all are responsible for the state of the World. Those acting in a irresponsible manner are beginning to be held accountable by having to clean up their messes, industrial waste is being exposed and environmental news today appears to be bigger than ever before. If a larger global economy (community) becomes more established, I foresee great strides in communications between nations. And the more we talk together, the more problems are discussed and the solutions will be presented and observed. I think that people deserve a far better goverment in almost every instance. It seems that a by product of riches and extreme wealth is a need to participate in charities and to become more globally responsible.

I think more and more the actual list of burdensome tragedys around the world...such as what is going on in the Sudan, in Iraq, warring in third world countires...and in the demolition of rainforests, is being looked into and goverments are deciding what to do with what resources they have, or what not to do, in the case of wars they may not want to be involved in, forests we may wish to conserve...I think of Brazil where they are paying farmers to let their lands revert to forests...

I get really upset sometimes about how little is being done, or the quickness of private agencys and goverments in repairing problems of a tragic nature, but that does not mean they are not doing things toward solving problems.

When we look at the corruption it seems like there is little hope for change, and that the world is going down like the Titanic...but we mustn't always focus on the negative because that is not all that there is, there is much of a positive nature going on as well. The very fact that the environment has become a new focus in the news and media, whether Global Warming is a man made phenomenon or it isn't...is GOOD NEWS and can no longer be avoided as it once was.
Once a problem is brought to the fore...well it has to be addressed, and that is happening Now!
smile.gif


STAGGERBOT...that was an interesting survey. I have never seen one like it, thanks. I have never been able to believe people who said they think about me everyday. I have a tendency to disbelieve this survey where it states that certain people (especially Christians) pray everyday ~although I do believe Muslims do because of daily routines which include prayer rituals ...and I find myself skeptical in some other places as well, but how can I really know? Surveys should be done with lie detector testing in my opinion tongue.gif




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STAGGERBOT
Posted: Apr 13 2007, 07:23 PM


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QUOTE (tikay @ Apr 13 2007, 06:28 PM)

Surveys should be done with lie detector testing in my opinion tongue.gif

So true...me too.

The subject matter of this survey is kind of sensitive, err I guess no more so than "Does God Answer Prayer?", but it highlights the one of the problems with surveys

Survey with a Fake Lie-Detector

-when women thought they were hooked up to a lie detector, their questionnaire answer's about how many sex partners they've had jumped by 70%, from 2.6 to 4.4.
-for men it increased by 8% from 3.7 to 4.0 when hooked up to the fake lie detector
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soundhertz
Posted: Apr 13 2007, 09:05 PM


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QUOTE
I think that people deserve a far better goverment in almost every instance.


No they don't tikay sad.gif

An individual person may, but not 'people'. As a conglomerate, we are defined by our mean and our mode. And that is *always* lower than the individuals at the top of our range. And so it is that the mean and the mode of us elect our politicians, not the best of us. You may then say that's because many of the best of us don't vote, but then are they our best if their cynicism guides them?

It sounds harsh, but we really are responsible for ourselves. And in the confronting of an imperfect society do all of us suffer for the irresponsibility of every one. Not directly perhaps, but complexity of issues and time spans for events only camouflage the indirect hits we all take, and it all adds up inexorably to the same net result.

Some of the best of us are lost in this unfolding; we can all think of a few right off the bat. I just saw a post yesterday involving Tesla, a man rarely mentioned on this forum. Not surprising. imho, in the U.S. there was no one - no one - and I say it again, no one - who was the best of the best yet milked and slaughtered like this one-of-a-kind man.

No tikay, perhaps you individually and others individually deserve better than what we have, but we as a people have not deserved the gift of one such as Tesla, whom we didn't protect, to our loss unimaginable, and neither do we deserve better than what we have in the Oval Office now, whom we have protected and fully funded. We do not deserve what we do not have, what we have we have earned.


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tikay
Posted: Apr 13 2007, 10:21 PM


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QUOTE (STAGGERBOT @ Apr 13 2007, 12:23 PM)
So true...me too.

The subject matter of this survey is kind of sensitive, err I guess no more so than "Does God Answer Prayer?", but it highlights the one of the problems with surveys

Survey with a Fake Lie-Detector

-when women thought they were hooked up to a lie detector, their questionnaire answer's about how many sex partners they've had jumped by 70%, from 2.6 to 4.4.
-for men it increased by 8% from 3.7 to 4.0 when hooked up to the fake lie detector

Thanks for another interesting link!
Not too surprising results, considering the context of the testing. Societal double standards once allowed men far more honesty in the sexual arena, although we are all witnessing a trend of possible reversal of that prejudice, in more affluent cultures, anyway.
Only recently I have seen a trend in todays women toward naming themselves "sluts" in order to reverse the stigma attached to that word, much like the word queer was made more acceptable, once gay people began to use the term in a positive light.


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tikay
Posted: Apr 13 2007, 10:27 PM


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Soundhertz we will just have to disagree on this one dear! biggrin.gif
I think that the better the leaders the better the citizens under their leadership and therefore if we have better leaders we will evolve more quickly and....that we all deserve to be and do better.

If Tesla was more applauded I too believe the world would be a perhaps different more advanced place under the sun. He was a true genius who deserved to be far more recognised in his time! I've no doubt there are more unrecognised Tesla among us, many being referred to as nutters at this very minute. Only time will tell...


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Guest_PAUL
  Posted: May 3 2007, 11:19 AM


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yOU KNOW WHAT SOME PEOPLE LIKE IMMORAL YOU CAN SEE FROM HIS NAME ITSELF
LIKE DOING IMMORAL ACTIVITIES
AND THEY WILL FIND ALL WAYS TO SHOW GOD IS NOT THERE..
GOOD PEOPLE NEED TO REALIZE GOD IS THERE...IT IS LIKE THESE DEWELLS
THAT USA IS BEING HATED.....THIS GUY IMMORAL COULD BE IIN SOME ACTIVITIES RELATED TO PORN OR ANY IMMORAL ACTIVITES..SO WE DONT NEED TO LISTEN TO HIS COMMENTS..
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BellyOrBotton WhichSwells
Posted: May 3 2007, 03:29 PM


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YEAH! To be able to eat with AppHole!

HOw much of the recently touted fuel, the Great 'Ethanol' is required?

As much as is needed to convert ALL the Colorless Shnow into 'Water'.

For some reason or other Water found an Intermediate powdery to slushy (crystall/y/ine) to SUPERsolid State/medium!

It does NOT matter whether it is available below the useless sand, below the abyss(in/ine) ocean or ON Mars..

Got to GO and Fetch IT.

That's DEVELOPMENT for sure!
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flashgordon
Posted: May 3 2007, 05:19 PM


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the dark ages is definitelly coming;
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SimDevA
Posted: Sep 19 2007, 03:12 PM


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Here are 2 other, highly detailed earlier meta-analyses of prayer research studies. Both indicate a small but positive effect of prayer.

www.annals.org/cgi/reprint/132/11/903.pdf - "The Efficacy of Distance Healing" (Austin 2000) shows 13 out of 23 (57%) of studies show a statistically significant positive effect.

The other review by Robert Barth (any relation to Karl I wonder?) is from 2005, and shows a more complex picture - aknowledging the prevalence of 'cooked up' results and/or poor methodology in many studies. Overall, Barth picks out 14 foundational studies noting:

QUOTE
"Some concluded that prayer is a powerful healing agent. Others came to no specific conclusion, and instead focused on the difficulty of scientifically measuring the value of prayer.

A common thread weaving throughout the 14 foundational studies is that further
research is warranted. There has yet to be a concurring scientific conclusion one way or another..


His paper is at www.metanexus.net/conference2005/pdf/barth.pdf

I am disappointed by the unclear results from such research. Does this show that 'prayer is not effective at healing'? Or is it that 'effective prayer needs certain (unfulfilled) conditions to work, and is therefore always going to be unpredictable'.

Who knows...?
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the holy man
Posted: Sep 19 2007, 04:18 PM


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hey guys the reason we have a god is simple do you want to know???....ok then i was always the kind of person that believes in what he can see and hear and such like UNTIL....i was on a short flight to Holland when all of a sudden the cabin crew started to run around franticly closing lockers and belting folk up then came the dreaded message from the pilot "we are suffering technical problems " well this did not go down to well with a group of guys on there way to Amsterdam for a stag party and to be honest with you i had to agree!! the situation was bad "as far as we were concerned" the chap siting at the side of me was a walking advertisement for anabolic steroids this guy was huge and listening to his rap our with his friends his testosterone gave him plenty of confidence. but i was amazed when he started praying "the hail Mary" now i know this prayer of by heart and have to admit i was saying it silently also..... anyway much to our relief we landed safely and the technical problem was a bird had hit the pilots window now then whilst waiting for my bags i had the chance to talk to Mr meat head who had now regained his posture and it turns out that he had never prayed the hail Mary before in his life and could not recall how he come to know the prayer?? me i said the hail Mary because it comforted me to think that even though i was walking through the valley and the shadow of death some good was gonna come of it Mr meat head on the other hand said it because like most on this planet we live in ignorance and when the time comes that our little twinkle of life may be put out insecurity kicks in
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Jeremy Fisher
  Posted: Sep 19 2007, 06:30 PM


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god does answer prayers! proof. i prayed last week for a friend and the very next day mum come home with a fish in a tank.
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