Miracles - Lame Walk, Blind See

I just am curious, For those opposed to God - after you know or have seen that the blind receive sight by God, the lame walk, speaking in tongues by the Holy Spirit - Do you still choose to doubt God or Jesus? (nonphysical means)

This post has been edited by TracerTong on Feb 10 2010, 08:25 PM

Have you ever met a permanently blind man who can now see? Why doesn't god heal amputees?

Snake oil salesmen produce the same result.

Both they and faith healers operate on the dictum, 'there's a sucker born every minute, and two to take him'.

No but I was at a healing mass when I was younger and have seen people in wheelchairs get up. Can't remember all the details and don't want to track down the people. If you've watched the 700 Club on NBC (don't know when its on now) people are healed by God.

Placebo effect and positive thinking.
You DO believe in those two as well, eh, DroolerDung?

This post has been edited by keith* on Feb 10 2010, 08:36 PM

Not all people who are in wheelchairs have no use of their legs. Why don't any of these cases get reported to doctors or newspapers?

In my 10 years as a Pentecostal Christian, I have seen many people get "healed." The funny thing is that the next day, they're the same as ever. The euphoric effect that these "healing services" can produce in people is often enough to block out pain. The brain is quite capable of producing its own intoxicating drugs.

Never seen anybody get healed. I have seen the phenomenon called glossolalia - i.e.speaking in tongues.

Never ceases to amaze me that people accept babbling incoherently to be equivalent to event that is described in Acts. (Not that I believe it either...)

I can still do that. It's a great party trick.

Tracer Tong


You want us to believe in your God because of miracles? Easy.

Just get 700 or whatever to heal a double leg amputee. Let's watch the legs grow back. Should make for riveting tv.

Looks like TracerTong and MisterBelfry ran away as fast as they could.

The "God hates Amputees" argument is flawless.

And oh yeah ... Why is it that speaking in tongues is never done with a more deliberate meter? It's always at a much higher wpm rate than normal speech. What is it about pretending in that way that almost always leads to something that sounds like a 2 year old babbling?

This post has been edited by uaafanblog on Feb 10 2010, 10:54 PM

I would venture to claim that God IS an amputee since he/she/it is a totally disembodied spirit. Take a human being, amputate the material body and egoism, and you get God, i.e. the Holy Spirit.

I gather this from something I once heard that God creating humans in His image doesn't refer to the image of the human body, but rather the human spirit. Since Lucifer's fall from grace was caused by the elevation of his ego due to pride, I assume that ego is the part of human spirit that goes against the will of God.

If you amputate faith, you amputate God and the possibility of being inspired by Holy Spirit.

Wow, I've never seen anyone miss the point by as much as you just did.

The point was that you never hear about god healing amputees and restoring limbs (arms and legs) yet you hear all kinds of crazy (and unprovable) stories about god raising the dead and curing cancer.

Ok, flyingbuttressman:


I am not lying or exaggerating to you when I tell you what I have already said on here before.

I HAVE eye-witnessed a "near amputee" style healing from no more than about 2 feet away. I watched the leg GROW OUT by several inches through prayer in the name of Jesus, with no possibility of a hoax, in a small gathering, I'd say sometime around 1993. This leg had been injured decades earlier in an automobile crash, and he had a noticeable, obvious limp with the injured leg being several inches shorter than the healthy, due to the bone and tissue damage.

====

Many cases do get reported to doctors and newspapers, but they are often ignored or mocked.


===

I will say one other thing, which you will say that I am crazy, but you already say that anyway, so I don't care. The point of this is not to "brag" on anyone except God, because it's not like I have any control over what I'm about to describe.

You, or someone, told me that it was probably just "Deja Vu"....

Well, let me ask you, have you ever seen the Denzel Washington movie "Deja Vu" from a few years ago? Because the dreams are that accurate and detailed, as if you have a time machine or wormhole and are seeing exactly what will happen.

I know that I have had several dreams in my life which displayed the events of the next day or the next week or month in pictographic form, much like the dreams of Joseph or Daniel in the Bible, sometimes with spoken words of individuals including exact exchanges of dialogue such that I knew the content of a conversation, or at least a couple exchanges of conversation, word for word ahead of time, including exactly what other people would say and exactly what was written on a piece of paper I had never seen, all "non-generic", unique conversations; accurately describe a room or building I have never seen nor heard described, etc. I believe these dreams could only come from God, as it is certainly nothing that I have done.



Now you can ask for "forensic evidence", and I can offer none EXCEPT that if you go to www.WorthyChristianForums.com and ask the administrator about the dreams involving two cyclones, the U.S. flag, and the "Great Seal" (of which I didn't even know what it was called at the time,) which I posted way back in 2004....He deleted because he considered me to be "bitter" and probably a hoaxer, but I bet he still remembers.

Now again, I can't personally offer forensic evidence of this, but what I can do is tell you that these events absolutely happened, and it is not a hoax at all.

My parents also eye-witnessed at least one miracle of multiplication through prayer in the name of Jesus, and I know another man who has eye-witnessed several miracles which I can only describe as "mechanical alterations".

=====

As a serious Christian, I realize the word "miracle" is over-used many times, but I take the word very seriously and consider it to apply precisely to a healing or other event which contradicts the known "laws of physics", usually in response to prayer in the name of Jesus.

Some things I consider miracles:

Prophecy
Transformation (Water to wine or blood, for example.)
Multiplication
Alteration (suspension/change in momentum, inertia, etc, saving life or limb)
Healing of blindness, deafness, mute, amputee, cripple/maim, leprosy, etc.
Raise Dead
Part/Walk on Water
Flight/levitation
Doppleganger (The RCC reports a case of this, if true, it's definitely a miracle.)
Certain other things of this magnitude

Some things I thank God for, but do not consider "miracles"*:
Got a raise
"healed" fever (with modern medicine this is hard to know anyway)
car limped into the gas station
etc.


* I suppose if you are a bad employee and still got a raise, that might be a miracle, and etc, but even if it is, I think the term "miracle" is over-used in such contexts.

There are hundreds of people who claim with all honesty that they have been abducted by aliens. People claim to have seen all kinds of crazy things, yet all that would take to prove their case is evidence. Every single case that comes up ends up being a coincidence or misunderstood circumstances. All it takes is a single verified miracle, and you would be proven right. The silence is deafening.

You can't mock evidence.

Really though, I had just as much faith as you. I had seen miracles, "real" miracles. All it took was another perspective: could it have happened without god? The answer is always yes.

Once you analyze your entire life's experience, and you can say that it could have happened without god, then the seed of atheism sprouts.

This post has been edited by flyingbuttressman on Feb 11 2010, 02:21 AM